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Winter returns with a vengeance thread again


Damage In Tolland

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Think about this region and its geographical location. Snow is really what excels in this area..so it's not hard to see that New England as a whole gives birth to snow enthusiasts. I mean, I wouldn't expect to find a thread started about how 8C/KM lapse rates and 0-1KM shear of 300-400m2/s2 will lead to the risk of long track tornadoes..or something like that.

Well put. What type of "interesting" wx does New England get more frequently than most other parts of CONUS? (And BD drizzle is NOT my definition of "interesting"!) The average return period for a decent tropical system is what, 10 years? About the same for a tornado stronger than EF1? Heat waves longer than 4-5 days are quite uncommon, and triple-digit temps even moreso (or why last July was so much discussed.) Yet somebody in NWE gets a 20" dumping almost every winter, and I'm limiting that to folks at under 1,500'. I agree that floods are #2 and can generate plenty of board buzz, but snow is what NWE does best, so its near-obsession shouldn't be a surprise, even when it's overdone.

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It looks like the models have not been so bullish with the PV over the last 24 hrs. The west coast hasn't changed all that much. The se ridge bumped slightly north, but the biggest difference to me is the confluence and also..the Hudson Bay ridge is a little further west..thus the s/w responsible is too, allowing for it to come a little north.

Perhaps it's not done coming this way.

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Well put. What type of "interesting" wx does New England get more frequently than most other parts of CONUS? (And BD drizzle is NOT my definition of "interesting"!) The average return period for a decent tropical system is what, 10 years? About the same for a tornado stronger than EF1? Heat waves longer than 4-5 days are quite uncommon, and triple-digit temps even moreso (or why last July was so much discussed.) Yet somebody in NWE gets a 20" dumping almost every winter, and I'm limiting that to folks at under 1,500'. I agree that floods are #2 and can generate plenty of board buzz, but snow is what NWE does best, so its near-obsession shouldn't be a surprise, even when it's overdone.

Don't get me wrong..I love all wx. I don't need an F3 to come through my block...I'm happy with a tstm that produces good CG. However, winter wx is where we excel.

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It looks like the models have not been so bullish with the PV over the last 24 hrs. The west coast hasn't changed all that much. The se ridge bumped slightly north, but the biggest difference to me is the confluence and also..the Hudson Bay ridge is a little further west..thus the s/w responsible is too, allowing for it to come a little north.

Perhaps it's not done coming this way.

AWT's are starting to fly

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Bingo here!

Heat wave Meteorology is fascinating in my book. I have made some elaborate posts in the past regarding them.

Particularly the nice little pattern we have going here -- 1933, 1944, 1955, 1966, 1977, 1988, 1999, 2010.....

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AWT's are starting to fly

LOL, well it's the confluence more than anything. It's still a little early, but your AWT's were for Thursday. Still plenty of time for that. Monday's storm looked like it could be some snow at the onset, as Will pointed out a few days ago.

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LOL, well it's the confluence more than anything. It's still a little early, but your AWT's were for Thursday. Still plenty of time for that. Monday's storm looked like it could be some snow at the onset, as Will pointed out a few days ago.

Think we might end up with 8-12 inches total from both..more in some places TBD

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That could be an exciting event nearing the end of the month.

That is the event that was more impressively signaled by the teleconnectors yesterday, still as this morning that is true, too. The NAO takes a nose dive over the next week to 10 days and the PNA, after a brief recession goes smartly positive ...

That idea of a longitudinal wave cutting east thrugh MV needs to be watched in that time frame, because with the back ground canvas being what it is, should any SPV dynamics dangle into the Lakes while that is cutting through, the two could very easily coitus on the EC and give birth to statistically overdue spring event.

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Scott and I were just mentioning this to one another.

Joe D'aleo released a blog recently discussing ...well, proving really, that the ENSO took a back seat to the AO/NAO over the last two seasons; much of this goes with that...

There may be something to SSWless winters and the ending AO/NAO leading into mid and late spring that correlates to summer patterns. As we head from April 15 to June 15, the flow everywhere relaxes and the wave lengths shrink. Teleconnectors have far less correlation... the gradients become so weak in general that there aren't really any in situ pattern drives.

Which one of those Newtonian physical definitions was it, not 2. Maybe 1 or 3, where "an object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force". That definition is applicable in mid to late spring... whereas the last known pattern influence sticks heading into mid summer (or one related to) because there are no new forces acting on the system when the summer doldrums kick in.

You mentioned it elsewhere...as you age you recognize things. Guys like Jerry/Steve have more of that in the bank that you and I but it still comes into play. Once the pattern broke and didn't show a strong sign of coming back within 2 weeks I felt we were cooked. Likewise I think the snow of a few days ago and now the cold is a clear signal we've flipped again. Things have changed. The cycle of 45 day weather patterns seems to be intact...and we may be one cool/cold cycle for at least a few weeks. Blows that it didn't happen 2 weeks ago when we had a better shot.

I wouldn't make it sound like it's about finding snow in every pattern. Sure some joke around and call for snow in the crummiest patterns..but I think we do a good job on saying whether or not the pattern sucks.

Think about this region and its geographical location. Snow is really what excels in this area..so it's not hard to see that New England as a whole gives birth to snow enthusiasts. I mean, I wouldn't expect to find a thread started about how 8C/KM lapse rates and 0-1KM shear of 300-400m2/s2 will lead to the risk of long track tornadoes..or something like that.

I thought the epic March rains of last year were discussed very well. I'm sure of May 2006 occurred again, we would have the same disco. I have a slight flood fetish, but mostly due to anomalous nature of the pattern that brings these floods to sne. Of course heavy rains don't necessarily inspire excitement for many like heavy snow does, but that's the way it is for most locations.

Scott don't get me wrong....I'm not here half the year because I like winter weather more than any other season. Hurricanes interest me and severe storms too....but those are so rare. So it wasn't a criticism. It's just that we naturally focus way more on snow. You don't see 100 page threads about impending 70 degree weather in March...we just don't collectively care all that much and it's not that exciting. The AWT stuff...I know it's in jest but let's face it most thought winter was coming back on 2/20 not 3/20...then 3/1 etc. This is NOT AWT, and I think we're darn lucky to be having any of these threats coming up.

i get as excited about a 100 degree heat wave as much as you get excited about 2 feet of snow

100 degrees does nothing for me. If we get into the 100s...I'd like to see a 105 or 110 around here in my lifetime...that'd impress me.

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Mostly snow for us Wednesday - Thursday also :)

Love that north trend on the QPF

http://raleighwx.ame...2zgfsp72114.gif

That north trend that everyone is excited about is not going to stop now, with the PV relaxing and the se ridge flexing, dont be suprised that this turns into a ski country special, especially being 5 days out.

Monday looks ok for ski country unless a few sleet pellets followed by rain is your idea of fun/

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LOL, well it's the confluence more than anything. It's still a little early, but your AWT's were for Thursday. Still plenty of time for that. Monday's storm looked like it could be some snow at the onset, as Will pointed out a few days ago.

Will's been talking about the potential for a few inches up his way for days and apparently correctly so.

That could be an exciting event nearing the end of the month.

That is the event that was more impressively signaled by the teleconnectors yesterday, still as this morning that is true, too. The NAO is takes a nose dive over the next week to 10 days and the PNA, after a brief recession goes smartly positive ...

That idea of a longitudinal wave cutting east thrugh MV needs to be watched in that time frame, because with the back ground canvas being what it is, should any SPV dynamics dangle into the Lakes while that is cutting through, the two could very easily coitus on the EC and give birth to statistically overdue spring event.

What strikes me of late is that the GFS is signaling no return to warmth. People rip it all the time but in a very vague sense....after 2/5 or so it was always erratic with temps never signaling a solid return to cold and having cutters here and there. It was right in leaning ugly.

As far out as we can see now to 4/3 it's nothing but "threats"...and that's an EPIC break from the last 45 days.

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Will's been talking about the potential for a few inches up his way for days and apparently correctly so.

What strikes me of late is that the GFS is signaling no return to warmth. People rip it all the time but in a very vague sense....after 2/5 or so it was always erratic with temps never signaling a solid return to cold and having cutters here and there. It was right in leaning ugly.

As far out as we can see now to 4/3 it's nothing but "threats"...and that's an EPIC break from the last 45 days.

The euro did pretty good in keeping the crappy pattern iirc. I thought it was the GFS that was too insistent on developing riding in CA.

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That could be an exciting event nearing the end of the month.

That is the event that was more impressively signaled by the teleconnectors yesterday, still as this morning that is true, too. The NAO takes a nose dive over the next week to 10 days and the PNA, after a brief recession goes smartly positive ...

That idea of a longitudinal wave cutting east thrugh MV needs to be watched in that time frame, because with the back ground canvas being what it is, should any SPV dynamics dangle into the Lakes while that is cutting through, the two could very easily coitus on the EC and give birth to statistically overdue spring event.

Definitely some interesting opportunities beyond Thursday for the reason you alluded too. Multi model agreement about the NAO and even west coast ridging. Whether it produces??? Time will tell, but at least the pattern allows for something.

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Blows that it didn't happen 2 weeks ago when we had a better shot.

Yeah - winter is up against tough odds down here now. As we enter the last week of March even a -17 below average high temp still nets out above freezing. And we add a degree every couple of days.

But I'll never forget the April Fool's Day Blizzard in '97. My memory is fuzzy, but I think the temps hit 70 not three days before the event...

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That was a fun storm in 3/1984.....got a foot of snow below Albany. It was a pretty wet snow, but we managed that during the high sunlight hours in the low lands of the Hudson Valley. Two weeks earlier we had a wild storm with 15" of combined snow/sleet topped by glaze.

http://www.eas.slu.e...COSN&sort=2mTMP

March 28-29, 1984 is the top CIPS analog for now.

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Yeah a little less juicy and perhaps a little warmer after 18z Monday, on this run.

I'm torn...I would possibly risk my 5" of snow on the EC and take 1" of glop on Monday if it meant increasing my chances for Wed/Thu. Then again I like having this event in the 2-3d range...not that my hypothetical gambles even matter. :snowman:
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