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Pattern Changing: Early December threats?


ORH_wxman

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Wow, what a total meltdown (npi) from Kevin. What's it gonna be Kev, cold snowy Winter or warm 2007ish type Winter, put your b*lls out like you ask others to do. Of course, I am unwavering in my thinking that in the final analysis this Winter will be a good snowy one. I bet Ginx and Jerry aren't running around like their hair is on fire screaming "It's over!! We're doomed!!".

My balls are dangling on your chin right now..and I put my thoughts out there.

It's not over..it's likely just not looking as good as we thought. It's called dealing with reality

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I never expected a great deal of snow in December anyway, but what I don't want to see is Sam and Rick (Logan11) fornicating amid 2' of mashies, while I lay pinned @ 32.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 and R.

I would be fine with a total pattern fail; just not that.

Latitude, baby.

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No one ever suspected Feb '69 was en route; this period always looked to offer some potential that may or may not work out....wake me when Novie ends.

LOL I typed Jerry Jones when I mean't Jim Jones, guess it's the same thing, mass suicide,. keV fed them all koolaid, bodies frothing at the mouth with eyes bulging out.

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What the hell are the 18z GFS esnmebles doing now?

All of the sudden they have a strong PV developing in SE Canada after D9...that definitely isn't what the 12z ensembles looked like. This pattern is drving even the ensembles nuts all of the sudden.

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hopefully if the pattern is going to oscillate back and forth (not saying that's the final outcome) we get some snow events along the way. as we move through the next 10 days or so, even cutters will produce *some* frozen precip with the kind of antecedent airmasses we should see.

That is fine; even those of us who thought we would make out well like myself cited swfes as the predominate means of attaining snowfall....not classic coastals.

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hopefully if the pattern is going to oscillate back and forth (not saying that's the final outcome) we get some snow events along the way. as we move through the next 10 days or so, even cutters will produce *some* frozen precip with the kind of antecedent airmasses we should see.

Hey sounds like Winter in New England, imagine that.

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Models, especially the GFS is going back to a troughing pattern over the Aleutian Islands. One thing that has been consistent in the past case storms that the KU NESIS scale examines all show troughing over the Aleutian Islands as ridging develops over the PNA region. This could be the pattern change. That we have gone to ridging and then back to troughing on the GFS model.

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What the hell are the 18z GFS esnmebles doing now?

All of the sudden they have a strong PV developing in SE Canada after D9...that definitely isn't what the 12z ensembles looked like. This pattern is drving even the ensembles nuts all of the sudden.

The only thing consistent about the model guidance in the last week is their inconsistency lol

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One of the reasons that I have backed off is because the holiday weekend cold shot is now transient after being advertised and modelled as the start of an extended below normal period. Now we're back to normal and then above normal next week. That wasn't modelled anywehre until the last 2 days or so.It's like they see cold in advance and then warm up as we get closer..It's typically what happens in ninas and ripping Pac jets

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The only thing consistent about the model guidance in the last week is their inconsistency lol

Well I'm a bit puzzled at this because its not like there wasn't good agreement about the NAO block...they are moving it all over the place now when just a day or two ago they had fantastic agreement on the stout block that would be tough to dislodge.

At any rate, this "new" look on the 18z GFS would be fine by me. A big PV in SE Canada to supply some cold air with an active jet to the south.

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One of the reasons that I have backed off is because the holiday weekend cold shot is now transient after being advertised and modelled as the start of an extended below normal period. Now we're back to normal and then above normal next week. That wasn't modelled anywehre until the last 2 days or so.It's like they see cold in advance and then warm up as we get closer..It's typically what happens in ninas and ripping Pac jets

that's reasonable. let's see where it goes though.

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Well I'm a bit puzzled at this because its not like there wasn't good agreement about the NAO block...they are moving it all over the place now when just a day or two ago they had fantastic agreement on the stout block that would be tough to dislodge.

At any rate, this "new" look on the 18z GFS would be fine by me. A big PV in SE Canada to supply some cold air with an active jet to the south.

I will take my chances on the consistent tanking of the AO NAO with a PNA heading back neutral, history dictates a stormy period wiith colder than normal average temps.

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Well I'm a bit puzzled at this because its not like there wasn't good agreement about the NAO block...they are moving it all over the place now when just a day or two ago they had fantastic agreement on the stout block that would be tough to dislodge.

At any rate, this "new" look on the 18z GFS would be fine by me. A big PV in SE Canada to supply some cold air with an active jet to the south.

Yeah and this is the problem..it's all due to the fast PAC flow ..it's got warning signs written all over it

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The euro is kind of starting to scare me for the long-range. It just does not want to give us anything good to work with, develops such a deep trough in the west and builds a major ridge out here in the east. Hopefully the GFS is onto something but the track record of the euro in the past has been so good and we really don't know how the recent upgrades to the GFS will factor into how it does in the winter months.

Given how the models are handling the NAO/PNA/EPO in the long-range we'll just have to wait and see really.

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Yeah and this is the problem..it's all due to the fast PAC flow ..it's got warning signs written all over it

I agree PAC flow is possibly causing some problems. It's possible models aren't respecting that enough, and keying too much on the block to the ne. We've seen that before. I think that's just one piece of the puzzle though.

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I will take my chances on the consistent tanking of the AO NAO with a PNA heading back neutral, history dictates a stormy period wiith colder than normal average temps.

thats true ginx, however this year with a dominant -nao starting last winter has only brough new england a suck feb and march and an epic torch all year long, so should be used with caution.

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Yeah and this is the problem..it's all due to the fast PAC flow ..it's got warning signs written all over it

Totally agree!

Everyone gets so worked up and looks too much into the NAO. It's great for us to have a -NAO but chances are it's not going to win out over a crappy Pacific, especially when the signals in the Pacific are real strong. The only way the -NAO will help out is if it's very strong and setup more east-based.

With the way the Pacific is right now it's going to be very hard for us to overcome it plus we have the fact that the Nina will be strengthening over the upcoming weeks.

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