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1/21/11 Storm Discussion III


ConvectiveSolutions

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it spreads the vorticity everywhere leading to a garbage result even though the northern stream digs more and there's actually more ridging to the east of New England.

There's a blob of convective precip forming on the NAM too. The HRRR had that. I wonder if that is fooking with things as well.

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It's def disorganized. It almost dryslots us by 15z.

There's a few red flags with this system despite some of the positives...the vortmax core not quite getting underneath us has always been bothering me.

Should still be a nice system and I'm sure a few surprises await, but I could see some struggle to get to amounts over 6 if we have a bit of a disorganized precip field.

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Just did a quick trip into the OT section and found myself sticking up for Cheetah. Man, some of the guys in there really hate him. Seems like a decent bloke to me. Better to stay in here with family.lol

OT is definitely not the cute part of AmWx.

Heavy heavy snow, Pete ... hope you at least covered the plywood this time. Or delegated, anyway.

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BAAHH HAAABA special on this run.

Toss it. Not even supported by the RUC at 3-6hrs. Look at the difference between the 6h ruc and 6h NAM. The 1z RUC and water vapor shows no signs at all of the shearing. Could it happen sure, but right now pending another model indicating the same thing toss it.

If the NAM is the outlier at 0z how many will line up to say it's right on this time?

BTW the HRRR changes more hour to hour than an old man pees in the night. Not impressed.

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There's a few red flags with this system despite some of the positives...the vortmax core not quite getting underneath us has always been bothering me.

Should still be a nice system and I'm sure a few surprises await, but I could see some struggle to get to amounts over 6 if we have a bit of a disorganized precip field.

Yeah we were talking about how the 700 low being north might rocket the dryslot in, but also..play games with precip developing. I don't know....it's pretty much nowcasting from here on out.

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Toss it. Not even supported by the RUC at 3-6hrs. Look at the difference between the 6h ruc and 6h NAM. The 1z RUC and water vapor shows no signs at all of the shearing. Could it happen sure, but right now pending another model indicating the same thing toss it.

If the NAM is the outlier at 0z how many will line up to say it's right on this time?

BTW the HRRR changes more hour to hour than an old man pees in the night. Not impressed.

Yeah, RUC doesn't string out the vorticity like the NAM at all.

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trying to convince my friend to go to Mount Snow tomorrow...what's the highest amount I can tempt him with without looking like an idiot? 8"?

Judging by everything I'm seeing and reading here I would not feel real confident in Mt Snow area getting more than a few inches. 6" max imho.

Get there early b/c it will be super fluff that will be skied off pretty early. Fun none the less.

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I'm 99% sure the NAM is wrong...the NAM is actually more amplified than the 18z GFS at 12 hours and 18 hours...yet the low somehow gets out east and shoves no little precip back toward New England. It's in contrast to the SREFs...which brought heavier precip further west.

I might be wrong, but it seems like the NAM develops the sfc low on a wayward piece of vorticity that shouldn't be there in the first place.

nam_500_012m.gif

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OT is definitely not the cute part of AmWx.

Heavy heavy snow, Pete ... hope you at least covered the plywood this time. Or delegated, anyway.

Eh, we've put a lot down already. Things are toatlly buried at 2k. I've got steel beams that are completely submerged. I know where they are but you'd never know to look, just a solid snowfield. Hoping to catch 7-8" between this and the Arctic frontal passage. I'm getting psyched for something big to roll up the coast next week. Hope it comes to pass.

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I'm 99% sure the NAM is wrong...the NAM is actually more amplified than the 18z GFS at 12 hours and 18 hours...yet the low somehow gets out east and shoves no little precip back toward New England. It's in contrast to the SREFs...which brought heavier precip further west.

It's in the back of my mind, but it does seem weird....agree. The one thing that bothers me, is if the mid level lows don't even bother closing off. I'm not basing this from the 00z run, but if we have all of our qpf just from isentropic lift on a ssw 850 jet, it may end pretty quickly around here..except maybe parts of cstl areas. You really want to see the mid level lows close off and try to establish even weak cyclonic circulation in these levels.

Just some thoughts I have. I'm intrigued by this system either way. It could also really develop quickly once it gets its feet wet, and radar may explode after 10z tomorrow.

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I'm 99% sure the NAM is wrong...the NAM is actually more amplified than the 18z GFS at 12 hours and 18 hours...yet the low somehow gets out east and shoves no little precip back toward New England. It's in contrast to the SREFs...which brought heavier precip further west.

Looked like thunderstorms in the atlantic when the low is deepening that steal the moisture might be the reason at hours 12 and 18, also not buying it.

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Could be convective feedback

I don't know, that's kind of what it seems like. Seems like it shreds the vorticity and then the sfc low develops on the piece of vorticity S of LI even though the trough is really digging.

We obviously know the SREFs disagree, so if the RGEM and GFS look good, toss it.

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It's in the back of my mind, but it does seem weird....agree. The one thing that bothers me, is if the mid level lows don't even bother closing off. I'm not basing this from the 00z run, but if we have all of our qpf just from isentropic lift on a ssw 850 jet, it may end pretty quickly around here..except maybe parts of cstl areas. You really want to see the mid level lows close off and try to establish even weak cyclonic circulation in these levels.

Just some thoughts I have. I'm intrigued by this system either way. It could also really develop quickly once it gets its feet wet, and radar may explode after 10z tomorrow.

What's bizarre is as the NAM went east the RUC/HRRR are still coming west, driving warm air well into SE MA. I'll get slammed if I bag on the NAM. Just because it changes every six hours doesn't mean it isn't right this time. Pending the rest of the runs.

Looked like a thunderstorms in the atlantic when the low is deepening that steal the moisture might be the reason at hours 12 and 18, also not buying it.

Most models were showing some pretty nasty precip developing offshore and moving up over SE MA. The models including the rapid refresh jobs show this but seem to be nudging east.

So we have the NAM which is cold and east, versus the RUC/HRRR which are wetter but warmer. To some extent IMO there are signs in this rapid refreshers of this system crapping out too....just my 2 cents. Let's see what happens.

I am yet again under some type of warning, so there's a good chance it's sunny in the am.

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Could be convective feedback

IF IF, it's wrong, it's not convective feedback that's triggering it early. It stinks from the get go, the s/w is a piece of crap long before any convection is developing.

It's different from the start. The RUC has a solid s/w, the NAM is a shredded, multi lobe piece of junk. Looking at the water vapor, honestly it's a little tough to argue with either. There's a bunch of little maxes in the mix, but the NAM seems to have failed to pick out the dominate one.

EDIT: I'm about half betting we see the diagnostic report issues/deleted/missing data in the OH Valley.

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I hope this doesn't get all shredded.

And wtf is convective snow?

BOTH THE GFS/NAM SHOW IDEAL

SNOW GROWTH BY 6 AM. THERE ALSO IS A REALLY GOOD EPV SIGNATURE

WHICH COULD LEAD TO THE POTENTIAL FOR CONVECTIVE SNOW. THESE

SIGNATURES ARE FAVORABLE FOR 1 TO 2 INCH PER HOUR SNOW FALL RATES.

(from the AFD from a couple hours ago)

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I hope this doesn't get all shredded.

And wtf is convective snow?

BOTH THE GFS/NAM SHOW IDEAL

SNOW GROWTH BY 6 AM. THERE ALSO IS A REALLY GOOD EPV SIGNATURE

WHICH COULD LEAD TO THE POTENTIAL FOR CONVECTIVE SNOW. THESE

SIGNATURES ARE FAVORABLE FOR 1 TO 2 INCH PER HOUR SNOW FALL RATES.

(from the AFD from a couple hours ago)

THundersnow!!!!! or period of extremely heavy snowfall

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What's bizarre is as the NAM went east the RUC/HRRR are still coming west, driving warm air well into SE MA. I'll get slammed if I bag on the NAM. Just because it changes every six hours doesn't mean it isn't right this time. Pending the rest of the runs.

Most models were showing some pretty nasty precip developing offshore and moving up over SE MA. The models including the rapid refresh jobs show this but seem to be nudging east.

So we have the NAM which is cold and east, versus the RUC/HRRR which are wetter but warmer. To some extent IMO there are signs in this rapid refreshers of this system crapping out too....just my 2 cents. Let's see what happens.

I am yet again under some type of warning, so there's a good chance it's sunny in the am.

Yeah, the 01z RUC is more amped than the 00z NAM...shows the sub-1000mb surface within 20 miles SSE of the east end of Long Island...consistent with earlier runs of the NAM, the GFS, and the ECMWF. It's amazing how different the vort is on the RUC and the NAM within 12 hours.

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