dta1984 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Malacka11 said: The issue is that at this point we're stuck in this state of acceptance, so unless things get really bad again (maybe not even then) we're not going to be able to convince people to take Covid seriously enough. If things are going to change, in my opinion it's probably going to have to happen at the federal level... Maybe next January at the earliest. Just curious, what would you propose the federal government do? Most individual states are enforcing masks, distancing etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, dta1984 said: No that wasn't the issue. There were all kinds of people saying they weren't effective early on. Alot of mixed messages. How can people wear masks if there are no masks? People were saying they were needed for medical staff early on to prevent hoarding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, dta1984 said: Just curious, what would you propose the federal government do? Most individual states are enforcing masks, distancing etc. Having the most influential political party leader not calling it a hoax, not saying it’d be over in April, not making fun of people who wore masks would’ve been a great start. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dta1984 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, RobertSul said: How can people wear masks if there are no masks? People were saying they were needed for medical staff early on to prevent hoarding. So are you saying that all of our "experts" said masks were not necessary just so there wouldn't be a shortage? Edit;. To add "early on they were saying this" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, dta1984 said: So are you saying that all of our "experts" said masks were not necessary just so there wouldn't be a shortage? Edit;. To add "early on they were saying this" Masks were needed for frontline medical staff. If they were overcome with COVID, who’d have attended to the influx of patients? Please use critical thinking skills and trust of experts, the world is laughing at us. "I don't regret anything I said then because in the context of the time in which I said it, it was correct. We were told in our task force meetings that we have a serious problem with the lack of PPEs.” - Dr. Fauci 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEOH Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, RobertSul said: Having the most influential political party leader not calling it a hoax, not saying it’d be over in April, not making fun of people who wore masks would’ve been a great start. State Governor's (not Trump) made all COVID related decisions which hasn't changed I believe -- so there is your starting point for expressing disappointment. For some reason I don't hear or see anything in the news about state Governors... except New York given what happened there early on. Some states handled it well such as Ohio, and others did not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, NEOH said: State Governor's (not Trump) made all COVID related decisions which hasn't changed I believe -- so there is your starting point for expressing disappointment. For some reason I don't hear or see anything in the news about state Governors... except New York given what happened there early on. Some states handled it well such as Ohio, and others did not. Which state governor has a strong influence on the actions and thoughts of 50-60 million people? I’ve never seen people try so hard to deny responsibility and accountability to the office that should be held to the very highest standard of both. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dta1984 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 31 minutes ago, RobertSul said: Masks were needed for frontline medical staff. If they were overcome with COVID, who’d have attended to the influx of patients? Please use critical thinking skills and trust of experts, the world is laughing at us. "I don't regret anything I said then because in the context of the time in which I said it, it was correct. We were told in our task force meetings that we have a serious problem with the lack of PPEs.” - Dr. Fauci Easy there turbo. The fact is, we were still told masks would not help prevent the disease early on. Whatever the reasoning is behind that is irrelevant to my point. There have been so many mixed messages, which is partly to blame for the confusion some still have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertSul Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, dta1984 said: Easy there turbo. The fact is, we were still told masks would not help prevent the disease early on. Whatever the reasoning is behind that is irrelevant to my point. There have been so many mixed messages, which is partly to blame for the confusion some still have. The reasoning is extremely relevant - how can medical staff tend to patients if they themselves are not protected? What isn’t relevant is you clinging to an outdated situation as an excuse for the current one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dta1984 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, RobertSul said: The reasoning is extremely relevant - how can medical staff tend to patients if they themselves are not protected? What isn’t relevant is you clinging to an outdated situation as an excuse for the current one. Lol dude, just re read what I was quoting and take a deep breath. I am not clinging to anything. Hoosier said masks could have been pushed earlier on. I said we were told we don't need them early on FOR WHATEVER REASON.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Humans should have the ability to adjust to new info they receive. I have to think just about everybody has watched tv or been online in the last 6 months. The change of tone on masking isn't a new development. As far as the state governors... yes, they make the call on masks, but I think there is an influence/feedback loop from the top that has made some of them reluctant. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Hoosier said: People listen to and pay attention to what the president does. If he can type a sentence to make covid/treatments out to be the fountain of youth, then he could've slipped in a mention about being careful. 22 minutes ago, NEOH said: State Governor's (not Trump) made all COVID related decisions which hasn't changed I believe -- so there is your starting point for expressing disappointment. For some reason I don't hear or see anything in the news about state Governors... except New York given what happened there early on. Some states handled it well such as Ohio, and others did not. NEOH, you've hit the nail on the head about the State Governors making the COVID-related decisions. However, that is also my main bone of contention. The No. 1 job of the President is to be a leader, not day-to-day governing (legislature and courts). It is the President's job to guide the national conversation, be a leader in times of crisis, to work to unify the country through civil discourse. When Covid hit, the executive branch did not show leadership, it handed this political hot potato off to State Governors to handle. Therefore, there have been myriad courses of action instead of a solid, united effort to control this pandemic. Instead, this administration has taken no responsibility other than to criticize individual states' responses and create even more divisiveness than before this nightmare began. So my opinion is yes, it is the President's responsibility to promote the safety and well-being of the citizens by taking what the medical community recommends seriously, which our President has not done. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 In other virus news, they are really hypersensitive to the trends in New York, with closing or talking about closing things since the positivity rate has increased (but still at a low level). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted_Trough Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, NEOH said: How much of the US population follows his Twitter account? I don't feel its the President's responsibility to remind me via social media to wear a mask or follow basic hygiene. Masks have been pushed hard at least locally in Ohio. If someone refuses to wear a mask at this point its probably unlikely that a tweet is going to make a difference. Wasn't there a lot of complaining about Federal government involvement early in COVID? Now everyone blames the Federal government for not doing enough. You can't have it both ways. Hopefully a vaccine comes out in the Nov/Dec time frame so that can get to those with the highest risk levels. Until then the finger pointing at one individual is getting old because the election is getting close. But it is his responsibility. I think you underestimate how many people out there actually believe every word he says. In any case, that's what presidents are supposed to do: Lead, inspire, communicate, message. This guy has no leadership or communication skills. In any natural disaster (such as a pandemic), there needs to be a coordinated, unified response, i.e. the federal government should lead the way. The idea of federalism works for economic matters but it's a complete disaster for stuff like this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Inverted_Trough said: But it is his responsibility. I think you underestimate how many people out there actually believe every word he says. In any case, that's what presidents are supposed to do: Lead, inspire, communicate, message. This guy has no leadership or communication skills. In any natural disaster (such as a pandemic), there needs to be a coordinated, unified response, i.e. the federal government should lead the way. The idea of federalism works for economic matters but it's a complete disaster for stuff like this. LOL, we posted almost the same thought simultaneously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ovweather Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 52 minutes ago, NEOH said: State Governor's (not Trump) made all COVID related decisions which hasn't changed I believe -- so there is your starting point for expressing disappointment. For some reason I don't hear or see anything in the news about state Governors... except New York given what happened there early on. Some states handled it well such as Ohio, and others did not. Wait a minute, didn’t Trump at the first debate say his administration did a wonderful job at the start of the pandemic on advising state governments how to proceed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted_Trough Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, RobertSul said: How can people wear masks if there are no masks? People were saying they were needed for medical staff early on to prevent hoarding. I'll confirm this was the case. I ordered some masks back in early April through Amazon. It took me five weeks to receive my masks. Five weeks! Now you can go to any gas station and buy masks. They're sold like candy now. But that wasn't the case in April. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattb65 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, dta1984 said: Wasn't the early direction that masks are only needed if you're infected? Early guidance on masking was filled with mixed messages and confusion. (Talking March/April). Since that time a scientific consensus has emerged that widespread mask usage has a myriad of benefits to include: 1. Prevents the infected individual from transmitting the virus whether they be presymptomatic, asymptomatic or symptomatic - remember many are unaware of their infection but still highly infectious for a couple days 2. Protects the person wearing the mask - there's a variance based on the type of mask in terms of how effective the mask is in terms of prevention but even double layer cloth masks at a minimum provide some level of prevention and also likely reduce the dose of virus that the wearer recieves which likely also reduces the severity of their infection These factors have been communicated pretty consistently since at least June however mask wearing has unfortunately been subject to widespread misinformation campaigns. 1 hour ago, dta1984 said: Exercise, diet and vitamin D would have been better recommendations. These are good general advice for health and well being but there is no good evidence that any of these prevent covid infection. Diet, exercise, good sleep habits, stress reduction among a number of other factors are important for everyone to follow but not really relevant here. 1 hour ago, dta1984 said: Just curious, what would you propose the federal government do? Most individual states are enforcing masks, distancing etc. There's a lot of command and control happening behind the scenes that is not being communicated very well and there is a significant lack of transparency. There have been intermittent leaks of internal documents with the specific risk levels and recommendations provided by the task force to different localities. There should be a level of transparency from the federal government. There should be much better articulated best practices and overarching strategy coming from the federal government. There should be honesty and clarity about the facts. I could go on but all of this and more have been lacking from the federal government In fact, incredibly, the number one source of misinformation about this virus has come from the president. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-misinformation.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Look, he's going back to the White House later. Unless his condition worsens, I'll be taking a break from talking about Trump. Some of this stuff is just rehashing old arguments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 BTW, Dr. Fauci on masks (early on) https://streamable.com/oml2rf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dta1984 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, mattb65 said: Early guidance on masking was filled with mixed messages and confusion. (Talking March/April). Since that time a scientific consensus has emerged that widespread mask usage has a myriad of benefits to include: 1. Prevents the infected individual from transmitting the virus whether they be presymptomatic, asymptomatic or symptomatic - remember many are unaware of their infection but still highly infectious for a couple days 2. Protects the person wearing the mask - there's a variance based on the type of mask in terms of how effective the mask is in terms of prevention but even double layer cloth masks at a minimum provide some level of prevention and also likely reduce the dose of virus that the wearer recieves which likely also reduces the severity of their infection These factors have been communicated pretty consistently since at least June however mask wearing has unfortunately been subject to widespread misinformation campaigns. These are good general advice for health and well being but there is no good evidence that any of these prevent covid infection. Diet, exercise, good sleep habits, stress reduction among a number of other factors are important for everyone to follow but not really relevant here. There's a lot of command and control happening behind the scenes that is not being communicated very well and there is a significant lack of transparency. There have been intermittent leaks of internal documents with the specific risk levels and recommendations provided by the task force to different localities. There should be a level of transparency from the federal government. There should be much better articulated best practices and overarching strategy coming from the federal government. There should be honesty and clarity about the facts. I could go on but all of this and more have been lacking from the federal government In fact, incredibly, the number one source of misinformation about this virus has come from the president. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-misinformation.html Aren't these items one would do to improve their overall health? Being healthy certainly improves your odds vs stuffing your face with the typical american fast food diet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 30 minutes ago, Hoosier said: In other virus news, they are really hypersensitive to the trends in New York, with closing or talking about closing things since the positivity rate has increased (but still at a low level). Yep and not a fan of Cuomo at all. I have had quite a few local businesses shut down for good because of his policies. Unless we see a infection rate substantially rise we should be wearing masks/social distancing where possible, yet remain 100% open. He plans to shut down the entire state again if the rate goes above 3%... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary67 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, dta1984 said: Aren't these items one would do to improve their overall health? Being healthy certainly improves your odds vs stuffing your face with the typical american fast food diet. A failure of the US to acknowledge and push cloth and disposable mask usage early on was a problem. Asian countries have been using masks for years having to deal with SARS and MERS. Americans have a social stigma when it comes to wearing them and were slow to adopt them. Perhaps a little hubris factored in also. By that I mean our scientific and medical community may have been reluctant to admit other areas of the world knew more than we did about respiratory viruses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 He is back at the White House and while standing on the Truman Balcony took his mask off, this is a man knowingly contagious with a dangerous virus and he just doesn't give a ****. I'm sorry if this upsets people but this is absolutely ridiculous, he was literally rushed to a hospital 3 days ago. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dta1984 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Chicago Storm said: still and always will be a sham. . It's great to see him recovering. Also great to see the progress we have made in treatment compared to where we were 6 months ago. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ovweather Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, dta1984 said: It's great to see him recovering. Also great to see the progress we have made in treatment compared to where we were 6 months ago. How’s that Kool-Aid taste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattb65 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 2 hours ago, dta1984 said: Aren't these items one would do to improve their overall health? Being healthy certainly improves your odds vs stuffing your face with the typical american fast food diet. These items will help your health looking forward over the next couple years and beyond. If one hasn't been doing these things already then I am sorry to say that I doubt they'll have much impact if one contract Covids in the next month or two. It's never wrong to encourage those things but speaking specifically about Covid, the emphasis should be on what can help in the coming days/weeks/months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestrobjwa Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 2 hours ago, JoMo said: BTW, Dr. Fauci on masks (early on) https://streamable.com/oml2rf Forgive me but...I don't know why those who want to argue against masks (not saying you specifically) keep using this one early moment in time as support for it...It's almost like the mask advice given from April onward didn't matter. It's always "But at first you said..."...I don't know if it's a genuine "can't unring that bell" argument or just an anti-mask excuse. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Watched the video of him walking up the stairs to the balcony. The pace looked fine, but once he got to the balcony and took off the mask, there were a few instances where it looked like he was taking deeper breaths. To be fair, I don't know what his normal physical fitness is, so perhaps he would've been a bit winded walking up those stairs before all of this happened. Okay, now I'm really done commenting on Trump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestrobjwa Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, Hoosier said: Watched the video of him walking up the stairs to the balcony. The pace looked fine, but once he got to the balcony and took off the mask, there were a few instances where it looked like he was taking deeper breaths. To be fair, I don't know what his normal physical fitness is, so perhaps he would've been a bit winded walking up those stairs before all of this happened. Okay, now I'm really done commenting on Trump. Lol I noticed the same...he definitely looked congested, breathing through his mouth more than usual...but I'm no doctor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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