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January 2020 Mid/Long Term Discussion


nj2va
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1 hour ago, BristowWx said:

One thing the GFS deliver on the op run is cold late in the run.  Check out these 850 departures.  Nippy

Both the EPS and GEFS are building heights in the EPO space towards day 15, but it's a bit too far west. There will be a mechanism to get cold air delivery into Canada, but we will probably need to be patient here. Hopefully the -EPO is real, and the long wave pattern progresses eastward. Verbatim the mean trough will be in the western US  with a west based EPO ridge, and with a +NAO, there will a tendency for a persistent SE ridge, and a storm track to our NW.

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2 hours ago, BristowWx said:

All I see is coal and fruitcake.  What day are you keying on? Merry Christmas to you!

That has been period of interest for a few days. The 0z run had a strong storm ejecting out of the sw and gave us heavy rain with NJ and NY getting heavy snow. 6z run has same storm but doesn't make it up the coast. Maybe we can settle on a blend of the two and let the chips ( or flakes) fall where they may. :)

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Just now, Wonderdog said:

That has been period of interest for a few days. The 0z run had a strong storm ejecting out of the sw and gave us heavy rain with NJ and NY getting heavy snow. 6z run has same storm but doesn't make it up the coast. Maybe we can settle on a blend of the two and let the chips ( or flakes) fall where they may. :)

Yeah.  Perhaps but if the GEFS is correct it will take Nearly the first half of Jan to get things looking favorable as Cape said above.   It is what it is. Merry Christmas my friend!

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16 minutes ago, BristowWx said:

Yeah.  Perhaps but if the GEFS is correct it will take Nearly the first half of Jan to get things looking favorable as Cape said above.   It is what it is. Merry Christmas my friend!

What are the accuracy figures past 8 days for the GEFS  and the EPS in the past two years? Bah Humbug. Merry Christmas!

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1 minute ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

Minus 40s just N of the US/Canada border and above 40s in this region. Gradient.

Yeah but at least it’s at the ready if mobilized.  Of course it could stay put all season.  If we are knocking on Feb door with no change and no measurable snow then it would be discouraging.  

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Just now, BristowWx said:

Yeah but at least it’s at the ready if mobilized.  Of course it could stay put all season.  If we are knocking on Feb door with no change and no measurable snow then it would be discouraging.  

Also this is an op run at LR and there is alot of indecision among ens members as to where the PV ends up...Hudson Bay, Baffin Bay, back towards W Canada. TBD. I would take that location tho on the op. 

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@psuhoffman find me some analogs of what the eps and gefs are evolving into in the next 7-15 days. Lol. What a jacked up pattern. -PNA/++AO but is still lining up cold delivery (could be extremish cold) into the east. 

Hypothetically... if we get 3-4 separate shots of cold continental or even arctic air I think we can pull off an event before mid Jan. Def not a long track type of event as flow rippin and bucklin all over the mid latitudes. Just need choas to take over and get things lined up right. Ice, mixed, or even cold powder is possible. It won't come easy or be spotted from a distance but it does look like we're back in the game in early Jan

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17 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

@psuhoffman find me some analogs of what the eps and gefs are evolving into in the next 7-15 days. Lol. What a jacked up pattern. -PNA/++AO but is still lining up cold delivery (could be extremish cold) into the east. 

Hypothetically... if we get 3-4 separate shots of cold continental or even arctic air I think we can pull off an event before mid Jan. Def not a long track type of event as flow rippin and bucklin all over the mid latitudes. Just need choas to take over and get things lined up right. Ice, mixed, or even cold powder is possible. It won't come easy or be spotted from a distance but it does look like we're back in the game in early Jan

Amazing, just 2 days ago several here had punted the first 3 weeks of January.

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1 minute ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

Amazing, just 2 days ago several here had punted the first 3 weeks of January.

Yea, I thought that was a little silly honestly. @leesburg 04 says it well. There's a big difference between big game hunting and simple winter wx tracking. Is there any sign of a big dog pattern? Nope, not even close. Are there signs of enough ingredients available for some winter wx? Yea, all guidance has the door open for our most common way of getting snow... jacked up imperfect pattern that may accidentally work out. 

What's saving us now is no sign of a SE ridge. Amplifying progressive flow should deliver multiple winter airmasses during early Jan. We just need some good luck. We've had a couple bad breaks already. Time for equilibrium to kick in and throw us a bone.  

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@Bob Chill merry Christmas. 

I don’t have time for a deep analysis but there aren’t any great analogs to what some runs are showing wrt the -pna,++AO and still cold. All the current ncep analogs had a SE ridge and were pretty crappy. So either this will be a really anomalous period or the guidance is flawed and expect more SE ridge as it gets closer  

It’s a pretty mixed bag where this pattern progresses too.  Some of the analogs go on to crap winters (2002,1992).  Others go on to decent or even great years after (2000,1979).  Others are a mixed bag.  But the common denominator is the NAO.  They mostly remained flawed PAC side but the years that got some Atlantic blocking later improved.  Years the NAO stayed positive sucked.  

Past resukts don’t always predict future outcomes so....just a quick rundown of how  this pattern usually plays out and where it goes.

 

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2 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

 

It’s been hitting the eggnog HARD between the FL snowicane and this beaut. Oh well, delivering plenty of holiday cheer on Christmas!

Dude that is a whack pattern developing between Jan 3-8. Saw one run with the FL snowcane, another with a SLP in the western GOM dive SE and hit Jamaica, a bomb cyclone, a low 75 miles.east of Delmarva track WNW and end up west of Philly 6 hours later, etc. If there is going to be a convoluted surprise that may be the period. Like Bob said, doubt we will be tracking a particular threat....but something might pop under the radar in the short/mid range. Some fun solutions popping up tho.

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8 hours ago, Bob Chill said:

Yea, I thought that was a little silly honestly. @leesburg 04 says it well. There's a big difference between big game hunting and simple winter wx tracking. Is there any sign of a big dog pattern? Nope, not even close. Are there signs of enough ingredients available for some winter wx? Yea, all guidance has the door open for our most common way of getting snow... jacked up imperfect pattern that may accidentally work out. 

What's saving us now is no sign of a SE ridge. Amplifying progressive flow should deliver multiple winter airmasses during early Jan. We just need some good luck. We've had a couple bad breaks already. Time for equilibrium to kick in and throw us a bone.  

Agreed. No SE ridge in sight. Also heading into prime climo means things can pop up in the shorter range and surprise us. After all of these years of doing this I am still convinced that the models are still pretty much useless outside of 5 or 6 days lead time. 

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9 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Agreed. No SE ridge in sight. Also heading into prime climo means things can pop up in the shorter range and surprise us. After all of these years of doing this I am still convinced that the models are still pretty much useless outside of 5 or 6 days lead time. 

Not sure I agree. There is the tendency  for EC/SE ridging showing up on the ensembles in the LR. It's not a stationary/persistent feature on the means, but given the 500 mb pattern being advertised(+AO/+NAO/westward displaced EPAC ridge), it would not be surprising if it ends up more of a fixture than currently depicted.

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