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Late Weekend Storm Threat


IsentropicLift

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Regardless of how much snow the GFS is snowing, some people should start getting concerned about a legitimate ice threat if a situation like this transpires...the GFS, which almost always is terrible at depicting low level cold, is showing quite a bit of ZR already. See past event regarding how badly the GFS busted with the surface temperatures. 

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We can't see in between hours.

Which is why Snow maps, especially SV ones, are useful because you can get a snap shot of temps during heaviest precip.

 

There is no substitute for looking at the soundings.  I often get model soundings here but it seems not to be working this morning:

 

http://vortex.plymouth.edu/grbsnd.html

 

Does anyone have links to other free sites for model soundings?

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When you see something like this inside of 72hrs it is generally a bad sign. The only thing I will say is that a lot has to go perfectly to get significant icing. If the warm layer ends up narrower it could be sleet. If the coastal ends up stronger it could flip winds around quicker like the last event. 

 

post-2786-0-81836400-1423240869_thumb.pn

 

post-2786-0-21494800-1423240879_thumb.pn

 

post-2786-0-20412400-1423240887_thumb.pn

 

And it's not like the models are missing the lower level cold. The GFS is plenty cold at the surface, and with the deep snowpack they could be even colder.

 

post-2786-0-17122400-1423240980_thumb.pn

 

post-2786-0-90546700-1423240991_thumb.pn

 

post-2786-0-02714200-1423241004_thumb.pn

 

 

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When you see something like this inside of 72hrs it is generally a bad sign. The only thing I will say is that a lot has to go perfectly to get significant icing. If the warm layer ends up narrower it could be sleet. If the coastal ends up stronger it could flip winds around quicker like the last event. 

 

 

 

And it's not like the models are missing the lower level cold. The GFS is plenty cold at the surface, and with the deep snowpack they could be even colder.

 

 

Great post. And we could probably subtract 2-3 degrees from those temperatures since the GFS has a warm bias when it comes to low level cold

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The mid level low tracks determine whether snow falls, not the surface low. The 850 low looks to ride over or north of NYC-this has to change for snow to reach the area.

Once the surface takes over the 850 s collapse. You just saw that Monday . The difference here its going to take over sooner IMO .

The models are catching on and the trend is now S not N.

The RGEM just took the 850s 30 miles S between 6z and 12z at 48 hours and brings 1 to 2 tomorrow onto Long Island so its adjusting already in the near term . I think a better CAD signature will start showing up now as we get closer to Mondays system.

The GFS is very close to snowing through some of these layers at KNYC , if the city is lucky that's sleet and not freezing rain. The trend is now to a colder one aloft and unlike last weekend when we were adjusting the 850 line 10 miles N after after run , this time the adjustments should be S .

To many people were convinced last week that NYC and Long Island would rain those of us who argued against it were correct.

so once again , look beyond the models and why should this end up colder ?

You have a very cold BL , the air mass is cold and SLP loves to look for warm air. Where is that ? South and east . You will have a SW cutting and developing to your S that will turn your wind NE

It is very hard to rain in early Feb on a NE wind coming over snow cover .

Yes the key will be when does the surface take over , but the models are seeing surface feature 72 hours out it did not see Mondays until it was developing.

IMO the trend should be S and the details will get refined as we get closer.

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With temps showing near 40 on that last map, I'm 90% s ure it won't get that warm just like last storm! At least for some....then again the weather up to this has been down right colder I do believe, with basically a block of snow ice already on ground, frozen solid ground, dejavu or however you spell it lol

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At least we got a south trend I expect the euro to go south big time with this run. It's plenty cold for at least ice. Sad to say but i don't want freezing rain it's annoying. Snow I'll take any day. I wouldn't bother looking at the CMC and nam for the rest of this storm they will catch up to the king GFS now. Looks like euro wasn't that far off yes it was showing over a foot but if that low trends another 50 miles south and a bit stronger we could get 6-12 inches even in nyc!

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nice try but no this analog doesn't make sense. The low is diving through the lakes not Ohio valley. Completely different setup.

i think he meant similar results in terms of ice. Most of the region saw a ridiculous sleet storm with that, you had to shovel it. waste of qpf but it was a pretty cool event i guess 

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i think he meant similar results in terms of ice. Most of the region saw a ridiculous sleet storm with that, you had to shovel it. waste of qpf but it was a pretty cool event i guess

i remember that storm I highly doubt we get any sleet from this event. It's either going to be rain freezing rain or snow. And right now I'm leaning towards snow.
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Once the surface takes over the 850 s collapse. You just saw that Monday . The difference here its going to take over sooner IMO .

The models are catching on and the trend is now S not N.

The RGEM just took the 850s 30 miles S between 6z and 12z at 48 hours and brings 1 to 2 tomorrow onto Long Island so its adjusting already in the near term . I think a better CAD signature will start showing up now as we get closer to Mondays system.

The GFS is very close to snowing through some of these layers at KNYC , if the city is lucky that's sleet and not freezing rain. The trend is now to a colder one aloft and unlike last weekend when we were adjusting the 850 line 10 miles N after after run , this time the adjustments should be S .

To many people were convinced last week that NYC and Long Island would rain those of us who argued against it were correct.

so once again , look beyond the models and why should this end up colder ?

You have a very cold BL , the air mass is cold and SLP loves to look for warm air. Where is that ? South and east . You will have a SW cutting and developing to your S that will turn your wind NE

It is very hard to rain in early Feb on a NE wind coming over snow cover .

Yes the key will be when does the surface take over , but the models are seeing surface feature 72 hours out it did not see Mondays until it was developing.

IMO the trend should be S and the details will get refined as we get closer.

Excellent post. 

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nice try but no this analog doesn't make sense. The low is diving through the lakes not Ohio valley. Completely different setup.

I mentioned  in my post it was a different set up :facepalm:lets all read the posts throughly before we rip them apart

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