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Winter 2013-14 Pattern Discussion III


Marion_NC_WX

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So no one is going to comment on the 12z NAM? Granted it's at 84 hours but it would paint a snowy SE with parts of GA/SC/NC. ULL takes a great path and is south of where 6z had it. Again 84 hours but even verbatim it's ice for most of NC just before the ULL moves across. 

 

 

I commented on it in the Banter thread lol.  I figured anything past 48hrs on the nam would be considered banter.  12z has a nice looking cut off low with a cold core that looks to be on path to track right over most of NC.  Jeff had a good post in the mountain thread mentioning that a 546 core would produce a solid hit of snow for at least the mountains.

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Atleast he left SC out this time! I've given up on this one. The ULL didn't really do anything for here last time. A nice soaking 1-2 inch rain will be good though!

 

Much colder ULL showing up on the nam then what was previously modeled on the last storm.  Not that it will snow in SC but we are dealing with a stronger upper level system here it looks like.

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Sounds like WxSouth is putting a lot of weight into the NAM.

No, he isn't.

 

WxSouth (about an hour ago): Not buying NAM yet, is a strong cutoff in South, 540 heights, cold enough for wet snow under core in part of #arwx #mswx #alwx #tnwx #gawx

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So why is he concerned about another ice event for NC if the NAM is the only one really showing it?

Because other models have been showing ice too. The NAM just got in range enough to show ice with the 12z run, first time it's shown ice. GFS has shown ice for a while now, granted off and on and fairly inconsistent. Euro has shown ice as well. Nothing new. Did you miss my "ice anyone?" post on the 12th? http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/42741-winter-2013-14-pattern-discussion-iii/page-42#entry2876192

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Well, the Euro came in quite a bit colder than the dumpster fire last night.  Looks like much of NC ends as snow.  There's some ice, too.  I mean, it's not a great run, but it's better than nothing and it's mid-March, so I'm not picky.

 

C VA/C WV gets hit hardest.  Looks like 1.2" for GSO, 1.0" for RDU with lesser amounts south of there per the clown.  Boone gets 2-3".  Is that accurate?  Not sure, but it's probably overdone.  Almost the entire state of VA gets 2" (including the NC/VA border... the exception being the tidewater).

 

Of course, this is cold chasing the moisture, so yeah........  I'm all-in.  :weenie:

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Well, the Euro came in quite a bit colder than the dumpster fire last night.  Looks like much of NC ends as snow.  There's some ice, too.  I mean, it's not a great run, but it's better than nothing and it's mid-March, so I'm not picky.

 

C VA/C WV gets hit hardest.  Looks like 1.2" for GSO, 1.0" for RDU with lesser amounts south of there per the clown.  Boone gets 2-3".

Noticeable shift south on all models today, still a non event for most but might see some light snow/sleet. Still 60+ hours out, they may shift back north tonight/tomorrow. One thing is for sure, it's another magical MA winter. Where is spring!!!

ROA looks to do well.

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Noticeable shift south on all models today, still a non event for most but might see some light snow/sleet. Still 60+ hours out, they may shift back north tonight/tomorrow. One thing is for sure, it's another magical MA winter. Where is spring!!!

ROA looks to do well.

 

Yeah, the Euro must have came 100 miles south that run.  If that happens again, NC is in the game for a big one and we're measuring in inches instead of millimeters.  It's going to happen!  :weenie:

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RAH updated Disco:

 

SUNDAY NIGHT INTO MONDAY...IT APPEARS THE GFS AND THE LATEST ECMWF
ARE TRENDING COLDER...AND WILL NEED TO WATCH THE TRACK OF THE SYSTEM
AND THE DEGREE OF COLD AIR INFILTRATION INTO CENTRAL NORTH CAROLINA
WITH REGARD TO PRECIPITATION TYPE. PARTIAL THICKNESSES WOULD SUGGEST
ALL LIQUID THROUGH 12Z MONDAY...THEN THESE THICKNESSES BECOME
SURFACE TEMPERATURE DEPENDENT AS THEY MOVE INTO THE FREEZING RAIN
CATEGORY MONDAY MORNING. ANTICIPATING ABOVE FREEZING TEMPERATURES
THROUGH MONDAY MORNING...WILL CONTINUE TO KEEP THE PRECIPITATION
TYPE ALL LIQUID THROUGH MONDAY MORNING. AFTER THAT...PARTIAL
THICKNESSES CONTINUE TO FALL...AND SREF ENSEMBLES ON BUFKIT
SOUNDINGS BECOME MORE NOTICEABLY WINTRY OVER THE NORTHWEST PIEDMONT
IN PARTICULAR. IN THAT AREA...FOR NOW IN THE GRIDDED FORECASTS WILL
HAVE THE LIKELIHOOD OF RAIN WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW BY MONDAY
AFTERNOON. FARTHER SOUTH AND EAST...THE PROBABILITY OF ANYTHING NON-
LIQUID SEEMS TOO LOW AT THE MOMENT...PARTICULARLY BASED ON THE
PREPONDERANCE OF THE SREF SOUNDINGS SUCH AS AT KRDU. SURFACE
TEMPERATURES SHOULD STAY ABOVE FREEZING THROUGHOUT CENTRAL NORTH
CAROLINA THROUGHOUT THE DAY. AFTER OVERNIGHT LOWS SUNDAY NIGHT FROM
THE MID 30S NORTHWEST TO THE MID 40S FAR SOUTHEAST...DAYTIME HIGHS
MONDAY SHOULD RECOVER LITTLE...FOR HIGHS IN THE UPPER 30S NORTHWEST
TO LOWER 50S FAR SOUTHEAST.

THE UPPER TROUGH MOVES THROUGH CENTRAL NORTH CAROLINA MONDAY NIGHT
AND EARLY TUESDAY AS THE SURFACE LOW BEGINS TO MOVE AWAY FROM
CENTRAL NORTH CAROLINA OFFSHORE AND OUT INTO THE ATLANTIC. THE
TIMING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE GFS AND ECMWF SEEM MODEST...AND FOR
THE WEATHER MONDAY NIGHT INTO EARLY TUESDAY WILL NEED TO WATCH HOW
THE DRYING IN THE MID LEVELS...COMBINED WITH COOLING THICKNESSES AND
TEMPERATURES...WITH LIGHTER QPF...AFFECT PRECIPITATION TYPE. AS
THICKNESSES AND SURFACE WET BULB TEMPERATURES COOL...COARSE MODEL
SOUNDINGS DRY ALOFT...SUCH THAT WHILE THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR
LIQUID PRECIPITATION TO MIX WITH OR CHANGE TO FROZEN PRECIPITATION
BEFORE ENDING...THE MAIN IMPACT COULD END UP BEING LINGERING
MOISTURE ON UNTREATED SURFACES FREEZING LATE MONDAY NIGHT INTO
TUESDAY MORNING AS TEMPERATURES OVER MOST OF CENTRAL NORTH CAROLINA
WEST OF A LINE FROM ABOUT KRWI TO KMEB FALL BELOW FREEZING. BASED ON
THE LATEST TIMING...ANY PRECIPITATION ENDS TUESDAY MORNING AS BROAD
RIDGING ALOFT MOVES IN QUICKLY FROM THE WEST. DAYTIME HIGHS ON
TUESDAY SHOULD BE ABOUT 10 TO 15 DEGREES BELOW NORMAL FOR MID MARCH.
THIS CORRESPONDS WELL WITH A FORECAST BLEND OF 1000-850MB
THICKNESSES...AND GFS MOS AND ECMWF ENSEMBLE MOS GUIDANCE. OVERALL...
HAVE UPDATED THE HWO TO SHOW THE POTENTIAL FOR WINTRY WEATHER AND...
AGAIN...TO NOTE THE POTENTIAL FOR HIGH WATER ON MAINSTEM RIVERS WITH
A FOCUS...BASED ON THE MMEFS...CURRENTLY ON THE NEUSE.

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RAH still doesn't sound too impressed for the Triangle.

 

They shouldn't be, we don't have a chance.  This is a NW NC and NC/VA border counties potential.  Pretty much who got hit hard last week has a chance this week, will see, this thing could still tick north some and be all rain for most.  It could be a another SuperJames special.

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Yeah, the Euro must have came 100 miles south that run.  If that happens again, NC is in the game for a big one and we're measuring in inches instead of millimeters.  It's going to happen!  :weenie:

 

Looking at and comparing the members of the 0z/12z GEFS it's amazing how every member went south, and went south a lot.  Every member of the 12z GEFS has accumulating snow down to the NC border counties.  Would be rooting hard for this south trend to stay if I was in Roxboro/GSO/ROA.  Still a ways to go.

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Looks like the 15z SREF mean would imply a decent ice storm for the usual suspects (the same that got hit last time... like the Triad, etc.). The 850 mb 0C isotherm stays near the NC/VA border, though there could be a few ridiculously warm members skewing it, hence the dangers of using a mean to pinpoint these sorts of things.

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The 18z NAM shows an ice storm for the usual suspects (i.e. MBY, etc.). Could it happen? Two in March? Not sure I want to see another, though...

 

EDIT: Well, actually, it's not just icy here... it's icy for most of NC.  Surface temperatures are quite cold.  They are mostly in the upper 20s in the Triad and N NC.  Of course, it's the LR NAM, but I'm all-in for grasping at straws.  It's the middle of March.

 

USA_PCPPRSTMP_2m_084_zps9c806001.gif

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If the +TNH Pattern shifts East into the +PNA Pattern we have been hoping for (like the video implies) winter may last until middle of April. The +TNH pattern prevents -NAO and -AO so it is possible these teleconnections may begin to show up as well. There is still a tremendous amount of snow cover North of here and Cold air reserve so I wouldn't write anything off for about a month.

 

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The 18z NAM shows an ice storm for the usual suspects (i.e. MBY, etc.). Could it happen? Two in March? Not sure I want to see another, though...

 

EDIT: Well, actually, it's not just icy here... it's icy for most of NC.  Surface temperatures are quite cold.  They are mostly in the upper 20s in the Triad and N NC.  Of course, it's the LR NAM, but I'm all-in for grasping at straws.  It's the middle of March.

 

 

 

IMO the trend will only be better... NAM for the last storm never had more than a 100th of an inch ice (maybe a 10th) of ZR for KCLT, but zero 75% of the time. It's latching onto the cold air in place. Power outages will be an issue again this time.

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IMO the trend will only be better... NAM for the last storm never had more than a 100th of an ice of ZR for KCLT, but 0 75% of the time. It's latching onto the cold air in place. Power outages will be an issue again this time.

This would be incredibly unusual to have back to back ice storms in March. What a pattern, if it turns out this way!

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