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MaineJayhawk

NNE Autumn 2013 Thread

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This is what has been reported to me this morning...snowmaking is occurring too!

1,550ft...2" (on colder or elevated surfaces)

2,000ft...3-3.5"

3,000ft...5.5-6"

3,600ft...6-7"

WCAX Facebook had a picture and caption of 5.5" in the snow gauge this morning at the summit and I'm assuming they emptied it when the 2.5" COOP report came in at 430pm yesterday afternoon. That would put the storm total at around 4000ft at 8" I think.

 

That's pretty solid. MWN was out only COOP with measurable, and I did see LEB report a SHSN. But you always do better on the more westerly flow. The Whites don't start to pile up until the flow becomes more NW.

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my grandfather lives about 10 miles east of stanstead  just north of norton vt in southern quebec  settled between two mountains and on a lake  his temps usually match saranac lakes,, its an amazing place there and its about 1800 feet its a high spot in that area..  I remember about 10 years ago I was up there on columbus day weekend and they ended up with almost a foot of snow while just 10 miles away only had 2.. 

31F at Pittsburg... that place is an icebox.  Winter is settling in there, lol. 

 

That northern corner of NH is coooold...leading the way up there as even along the Spine of the Greens at elevation its still mid-30s.  Coles Pond at 2,300ft is the only place colder right now.

 

attachicon.gifTemps.jpg

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my grandfather lives about 10 miles east of stanstead  just north of norton vt in southern quebec  settled between two mountains and on a lake  his temps usually match saranac lakes,, its an amazing place there and its about 1800 feet its a high spot in that area..  I remember about 10 years ago I was up there on columbus day weekend and they ended up with almost a foot of snow while just 10 miles away only had 2.. 

 

That whole area from First Connecticut Lake to Pittsburg is nicely sandwiched between two areas of higher terrain, plus they have elevation of their own. Great spot to really bottom out on cold nights.

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First flakes ongoing right now (off and on between 9:30-9:50am) officially in Winooski along with snow pellets/graupel. In response to powder, yes there were about 3 stubborn trees with leaves on them up there lol.

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RT 108 is closed between Stowe and Jeffersonville due to snow...getting to be that time of year for the seasonal closures.

 

is this paste or did it fluff up as time went on?   From Fletcher Allen, the top of Bolton looks pretty white this morning.  Somebody's probably sneaking some early turns at this moment... There's probably uphill/downhill traffic today, PF?  

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awesome, while some of you guys enjoy first flakes, I can't even get to freezing. 34.3F this morning. :axe:

 Gotta get off that hill. I don't think the WFO (a tickle over 400') got below freezing either.

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is this paste or did it fluff up as time went on?   From Fletcher Allen, the top of Bolton looks pretty white this morning.  Somebody's probably sneaking some early turns at this moment... There's probably uphill/downhill traffic today, PF?  

 

Yep, based on Facebook there's a bunch of uphill/downhill travel going on.  I posted this in the ski thread but here's some shots from Nosedive at Stowe today...from 1st Law Productions' facebook page...

 

Check out this FB page, these guys will have sick stuff all winter I'm sure.

 

https://www.facebook.com/1stLawProductions

 

 

1385794_571807132885122_1315849611_n.jpg

 

1395334_571807636218405_272071452_n.jpg

 

603020_571764279556074_481801711_n.jpg

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Yup, a lot of the time the blocking does increase because of the developing nocturnal inversion or lowering of any other inversions, and then the blocking decreases during the day as mixing increases and lapse rates rise. In this particular case, the shift to more northerly winds you noted played a larger role too.

 

Pretty darn classic precipitation spread for a Froude Number of 1 or higher... that's how the eastern side villages/towns like Stowe, Northfield, Johnson, Waitsfield, and Westfield get higher QPF amounts than the western side.  Nittany man, that Froude Number breakthrough is awesome.  I'd never heard anyone mention that in AFD or anywhere when discussing upslope until you brought it up. 

 

Save this image under Froude number of 1< with the more north-south axis of heavier precip on the east side.

 

 

 

I also find that Mansfield and down into Stowe does good with precipitation in early/late season upslope events.  Such as the last 24 hours, its not often that Stowe Village jackpots on QPF in upslope... we are like the site that never really gets left out but also never really jackpot. 

 

I'm not sure why, but Mansfield seems to take it home in these early or late season events.  Maybe its the large ridgeline and sheer size of the terrain that causes the lift, but I saw pics from even the fabled Jay Peak this morning and it didn't look anywhere near like what I've seen coming out of Mansfield this morning.  A lot of April upslope events tend to favor Mansfield, too for whatever reason, or maybe its just that the Mansfield side I see jackpots on Froude around 1 or higher. 

 

Meanwhile, deeper into winter we get places like Smuggs and Bolton take upslope event jackpots, but I'm just assuming that has to do with more blocking prone in mid-winter vs. the better mixing this time of year?

 

I love this meso-scale climo stuff and could talk about it all day long.  Also I love how a lot of big upslope events tend to have lowering Froude numbers through the event... like February 2012.  It was ripping snow in Stowe Village to the tune of 1-2"/hr all morning on the 25th into the afternoon and gave us 17", but then around sun-down (much like yesterday) the band moved more to the west side as it slowly decreased in intensity...but I remember we went from steady 1 inch per hour snow to 1/4" per hour very quickly.  The type of thing where its still a light steady snow in town but with breaks in the clouds overhead and the only reason its still snowing is because strong NW winds aloft are blowing those fluffy flakes downstream from the Spine.  

 

April 2012 must've been Froude 1<...very similar precip spread to yesterday's event, even though its like 4-5 times higher, lol.

 

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Pretty darn classic precipitation spread for a Froude Number of 1 or higher... that's how the eastern side villages/towns like Stowe, Northfield, Johnson, Waitsfield, and Westfield get higher QPF amounts than the western side.  Nittany man, that Froude Number breakthrough is awesome.  I'd never heard anyone mention that in AFD or anywhere when discussing upslope until you brought it up. 

 

Save this image under Froude number of 1< with the more north-south axis of heavier precip on the east side.

 

I think we do a pretty poor job on upslope precip at GYX. But we have a similar mesonet (the MWN Autoroad) that could be used to apply the Froude number technique. Might be worth looking into with a study this winter.

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I think we do a pretty poor job on upslope precip at GYX. But we have a similar mesonet (the MWN Autoroad) that could be used to apply the Froude number technique. Might be worth looking into with a study this winter.

 

Would the height of the Presidentials change that at all?  Do you ever get NW flow upslope events that jackpot the SE side of the Presidentials or are the mountains just so high that it downslopes on the east side no matter what?  Ie, would a Froude number over the critical value cause heaviest precip to fall down wind of the mountains as opposed to upwind... like the Greens have very distinct events that are easy to separate out into CPV/west slope, crest, east slope/interior.  I'd image its not as cut and dry in the Whites, but you could probably figure out where the heaviest snow will fall in relation to the inversion level.

 

I've noticed the Adirondacks aren't as cut and dry as the Greens, either.  But the same basic rules generally apply...foothills or center of the Adirondack Park.  But look at the April 2012 QPF map I posted above... that event favored the Adirondack foothills on the NW slope, while the interior of the Park got less than half.  Meanwhile in VT, that favored the east slopes.  Usually those two are better correlated and if I saw that precip pattern in the Adirondacks, I would've assumed western slope of the Greens, not eastern slope.

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 Gotta get off that hill. I don't think the WFO (a tickle over 400') got below freezing either.

 

Unless your living at 1,500'+

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Would the height of the Presidentials change that at all?  Do you ever get NW flow upslope events that jackpot the SE side of the Presidentials or are the mountains just so high that it downslopes on the east side no matter what?  Ie, would a Froude number over the critical value cause heaviest precip to fall down wind of the mountains as opposed to upwind. 

 

That would be something to look at. I know Pinkham Notch does fairly well (i.e. doesn't downslope completely) compared to MWN despite being directly downwind on a NW flow event.

 

There is definitely some element of it that works for us as well. When BTV's estimated Froude was over 1 yesterday, our showers made it over the Whites and down to the coastal plain. Today no such luck.

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0.25 is the magic Froude Number for me LOL.

 

January 2010 is your savior... 33" at BTV (like 36-40" that week) with 4.5" in Stowe.  Still the most bizarre event I've ever witnessed up here.  The snowfall map is like the inverse of a topographic map.

 

 

figure1.png

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January 2010 is your savior... 33" at BTV (like 36-40" that week) with 4.5" in Stowe.  Still the most bizarre event I've ever witnessed up here.  The snowfall map is like the inverse of a topographic map.

 

 

figure1.png

 

I wish I was here for that! I have never witnessed 30" fall from a single event. Who knows if I ever will. I wonder how often a setup like that could occur.

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January 2010 is your savior... 33" at BTV (like 36-40" that week) with 4.5" in Stowe.  Still the most bizarre event I've ever witnessed up here.  The snowfall map is like the inverse of a topographic map.

 

 

figure1.png

I remember an event (I think in the last couple decades) where Pinkham was getting pummeled, but MWN was mostly in the clear with occasional undercast flurries. Maybe someone here can recall it. I think Pinkham Notch saw feet of snow.

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I remember an event (I think in the last couple decades) where Pinkham was getting pummeled, but MWN was mostly in the clear with occasional undercast flurries. Maybe someone here can recall it. I think Pinkham Notch saw feet of snow.

I was skiing at Bretton Woods getting pummeled while literally across the street at MWN it was clear

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I grabbed a shot of Mansfield today after the clouds broke away.  There’s plenty of white up there, and although this evening’s report from the stake doesn’t seem to have a value for total snow depth, the co-op has reported 8 inches of snowfall over the past two days.  Based on the forecast at elevation, it doesn’t look like there’s much concern about losing it this weekend – there could even be some gains  with freezing levels in the 2,000’ to 2,500’ range according to the BTV NWS discussion.

 

25OCT13A.jpg

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Pouring flakes and graupel on RT 100....enough that the graupel is trying to whiten the road. Pulled over to enjoy this for a minute haha.

Stowe is a magical place for a snow lover. How many total days w flakes are there....90?

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I wish I was here for that! I have never witnessed 30" fall from a single event. Who knows if I ever will. I wonder how often a setup like that could occur.

I drove through Burlington during that event....it was such a Currier&Ives type scene with fluffy snow burying mailboxes and piled high on roofs. BTV had 35" while Middlebury had 24"...one of the biggest storms for me as a student there.

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I'm on 89 at exit 6 and it's snowing...decent snow shower! Boo yeah

 

Nice! There were even a few flurries as I was walking up to play my show at Manhattan Pizza on Main St. in downtown Burlington tonight. I was surprised being so close to the lake but they were there. A few people ran out from one shop to check out some of the first flakes of the year for the CPV (not sure if downtown BTV had the same rounds of flurries we did this morning).

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