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MaineJayhawk

NNE Autumn 2013 Thread

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Congrats on the snow, guys.  I didn't see anything this morning, although MVL did report some 6sm -SN.  It has been cold the past couple days though...below freezing by like 7pm the past two nights. 

 

What do you guys do with your rain gauges once we start getting really cold?  Any fear of these Stratus gauges cracking or breaking with water freezing in them?  I had 0.08" from the other day that's been frozen solid in there at the bottom for the past 36 hours, lol. 

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Congrats on the snow, guys.  I didn't see anything this morning, although MVL did report some 6sm -SN.  It has been cold the past couple days though...below freezing by like 7pm the past two nights. 

 

What do you guys do with your rain gauges once we start getting really cold?  Any fear of these Stratus gauges cracking or breaking with water freezing in them?  I had 0.08" from the other day that's been frozen solid in there at the bottom for the past 36 hours, lol. 

 

I use mine all winter to do core samples with

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I use mine all winter to do core samples with

Yeah this. If it looks like it will be a mix or rain then I put it outside. Otherwise, it's inside and I take the core samples with it.

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What do you guys do with your rain gauges once we start getting really cold?  Any fear of these Stratus gauges cracking or breaking with water freezing in them?  I had 0.08" from the other day that's been frozen solid in there at the bottom for the past 36 hours, lol.

Typically, you want to put it in "winter mode" with just the outer cylinder and no inner cylinder or cap. It's still not great for catching fluffy snow or much of anything frozen under very windy conditions (we know the detriments of that type of snow collection), but if you've got a mix of very wet snow and rain, it will sometimes be the saving grace as the only method that gets the full liquid equivalent from the storm (since enough rain or warmth will wash everything off of snowboards). This time of year I go back and forth a bit - I had it in winter mode overnight in case any snow fell, and I'll put the inner cylinder and cap back in for this next storm since it's going to be rain. You can always leave it in winter mode for any storm, but it means having to pour the liquid in the outer cylinder into the inner cylinder to measure, and it takes more time/increases the possibility of losing some liquid to spilling.

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That "winter mode" is what cocorahs recommends, but I admit to not trusting what would happen to the outer gauge if a 1"+ RA event was followed by a temp nosedive before I could check/dump. At some level of liquid, I think freezing it solid would crack even the outer gauge, and I don't care to find out where that level is. Thus I take in the gauge completely (including the mounting plate - won't get feeeze damage but UV doesn't help plastic, even in winter), and switch to the 5-gal pails of known catchment area. The outer gauge is kept handy for cores, however.

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Looks like some gusts close to 50 could occur in the CPV Friday. Of course it looks a little more exciting toward the St. Lawrence.

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Looks like some gusts close to 50 could occur in the CPV Friday. Of course it looks a little more exciting toward the St. Lawrence.

 

LEB nearly isothermal with 60 knots at the top of boundary layer if you want to call it that. Should get some great gusts wind the fropa too.

 

The core of that LLJ stays closer to the coast though. GYX has 75 knots at 3000 feet if the NAM is right.

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The climate program is trying to tell us that CON set a maximum daily snowfall record with a T. Doesn't seem right that non-measurable snow triggers that.

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The climate program is trying to tell us that CON set a maximum daily snowfall record with a T. Doesn't seem right that non-measurable snow triggers that.

Yeah, is that really how the records are though? If no flakes have ever been recorded on a given day, just a show shower can set the daily snowfall record? I'd think even 0.1" or a whitening of the ground would need to be present.

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And thanks everyone for the rain gauge comments. I' like the idea of the usefulness of the outer cylinder with snow cores and collecting mixed precip QPF. I'll just have to be diligent in getting any liquid out of it prior to freeze too...I could see it cracking under the right circumstances there.

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LEB nearly isothermal with 60 knots at the top of boundary layer if you want to call it that. Should get some great gusts wind the fropa too.

 

The core of that LLJ stays closer to the coast though. GYX has 75 knots at 3000 feet if the NAM is right.

 

If it didn't cost nearly 30 bucks to drive up, and if it was open (I am guessing it wouldn't be), I would go to the top of Mt. Mansfield for some hurricane force gusts.

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If it didn't cost nearly 30 bucks to drive up, and if it was open (I am guessing it wouldn't be) I would go to the top of Mt. Mansfield for some hurricane force gusts.

The Toll Road closed for the season on Columbus Day...you could always do it the old fashioned way: hike ;). But no fun in the rain.

There are always winter days when we will get those 60-80mph winds...my favorite wind for huge gusts is the SW wind that shelters most of the ski area and we can operate the lifts to an extent at higher speeds from that direction, but there are a couple ski trails up there that are exposed briefly that way....I always go there to hang out in the big winds.

I remember a Dec event two winters ago where Mansfield clocked a 102mph wind out of the south and we were skiing through some huge gusts. You'd have like 100 yards of exposure before dropping under the ridge and the wind was knocking over small children, sending pine boughs flying all over, etc haha. Then it's dead calm like a few hundred feet later with a freight train low level jet screaming overhead.

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The Toll Road closed for the season on Columbus Day...you could always do it the old fashioned way: hike ;). But no fun in the rain.

There are always winter days when we will get those 60-80mph winds...my favorite wind for huge gusts is the SW wind that shelters most of the ski area and we can operate the lifts to an extent at higher speeds from that direction, but there are a couple ski trails up there that are exposed briefly that way....I always go there to hang out in the big winds.

I remember a Dec event two winters ago where Mansfield clocked a 102mph wind out of the south and we were skiing through some huge gusts. You'd have like 100 yards of exposure before dropping under the ridge and the wind was knocking over small children, sending pine boughs flying all over, etc haha. Then it's dead calm like a few hundred feet later with a freight train low level jet screaming overhead.

 

That would be awesome and yes hiking would absolutely suck in that mess.

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The climate program is trying to tell us that CON set a maximum daily snowfall record with a T. Doesn't seem right that non-measurable snow triggers that.

Ummm what about 2011?

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And thanks everyone for the rain gauge comments. I' like the idea of the usefulness of the outer cylinder with snow cores and collecting mixed precip QPF. I'll just have to be diligent in getting any liquid out of it prior to freeze too...I could see it cracking under the right circumstances there.

I’d say you’ll be fine as long as you’re going to be around to check it on a regular schedule – I added some expanded thoughts below…

I think it’s possible to damage the outer cylinder with some sort of freezing, but thus far it hasn’t been an issue for our unit. It really seems like it would have to be just the right set of circumstances to cause damage, because there are a few things working against that. First, since it’s a relatively large diameter tube, you have to get a good shot of liquid in there (probably over an inch or two) to have a situation that is going to exert substantial outward force on the plastic. Because of that fairly wide bore, and the fact that the top of the tube is open, there’s room for any ice to expand upward when the water freezes, and this is what seems to happen when I let liquid freeze in mine. For trouble to arise, there essentially needs to be a column of water in there that can exert sufficient downward force on the tube contents during freezing that it will force the ice to expand laterally (instead of upward) at levels greater than what the walls of the cylinder can withstand. It fits in with what Tamarack said, at some level of liquid you’ll probably start to run into trouble, and I don’t know what that level is, but from my experience thus far it’s more than an inch or two. In line with that, a second measure of protection is that getting that much pure liquid in one shot in the winter is pretty rare in our area, and if something like that is on the horizon, we’re probably going to know about it and can plan accordingly. The third thing that helps out is that the larger the volume of liquid in there, the longer it takes to freeze, so unless you are away from your gauge for larger periods of time than a typical work day, dangerous levels of liquid aren’t going to easily freeze solid. I think one would have to be looking at relatively big liquid amounts combined with extended periods of being away from the gauge to get into trouble, so I’d go ahead and use the winter mode on the unit with confidence unless a perfect set of circumstances arises where substantial liquid is coming and you won’t be able to empty it in a timely manner.

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There was definitely a bit of snow falling in the mountains yesterday, and I was a bit busy to get in a post, but I had time to grab a radar shot before it disappeared:

30OCT13A.gif

I had the web cam on at the house just in case, but I didn’t see any snow make it down to that elevation. Since it’s the 31st today, it looks like that’s it for October snow chances this season, next up appears to be this weekend, which will of course be in November:

31OCT13A.jpg

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I give up. 34.7F for a low. I expected more from "the hill". I guess it's safe to assume everyone else will be colder. Even PWM was colder. :facepalm:

 

lol, What did you do, Build your house on top of a compost pile............

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No, but the Davis sits on a post 6' above our leach field :lmao:

 

lol, Just as bad, You should probably move it

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lol, Just as bad, You should probably move it

 

It should also be at 4ft for temp I believe.

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It should also be at 4ft for temp I believe.

2m is 6ft so 5-6ft is usually the norm.

39F with -RA right now...not much if a warmup today.

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Powder would you be able to ferry me to the top of Mt. Mansfield by ATV so I could document hurricane force winds tomorrow ? ;).

 

Actually it looks like it may be pretty decent at Bolton too with gusts to 60 there.

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Pretty classic CAD east of the Spine.... with a very distinct temperature change between one side of the spine and the other.  Obviously this time of year it makes no difference if its 50F or 42F, but still always interesting to see. 

 

A good example of the snow preserving qualities of the eastern slope of Mansfield vs. the western slope... at 1,300ft on the west slope of Mansfield in Underhill its 52F (not on map).  At 1,600ft on the east side at the base of Stowe ski area, its 41F.

 

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