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Winter storm threat disc 1/25/13-1/26/13


Allsnow

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Though we have models on the table giving us 6-12", etc....I'm going to go with a combo of the GFS/NAM...my call is for 1-2" for most of us with higher amounts up to 4" as the maxcalling for amounts is foolish at this point.

Save this post and throw it in my face after the storm then ;)

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The day your are in the cross hairs 4 days out on the GFS for a major snowstorm , you better pack you`re umbrella .

They love to come west ,and often do you have to have lived here long enough to see that bias in the model .

Doesnt mean the GFS is wrong here , i just like the more northern solution . If every model run has to be perfect then nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise .

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It has a sub 1000 low heading near the benchmark. The precip shield seems fishy to me.

A very suppressed weaker solution is certainly possible. All of the pieces won't be onshore and well sampled for at least another 24-36 hours. We probably won't know for sure until 12z tomorrow at the earliest.

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Crazy differences in wording....Upton says moderate snowstorm possible while Taunton says blockbuster storm possible. I never knew that 6-12" is considered "moderate" for our area. It should be worded as "significant."

 

They are probably not convinced its going to be 6-12.  I'm not either, though I do feel fairly confident that it will snow on Friday.

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They are probably not convinced its going to be 6-12.  I'm not either, though I do feel fairly confident that it will snow on Friday.

'

I like the ridge axis thru the Rockies . Should argue for a little sharper trough down range no ?

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I've seen straight 10-1 snow with temperatures in the teens before. It all depends what the mid-levels have where the snowflakes form. You want -12 to -18C at around 700mb for optimal ratios. A lot of times in these SWFE type events, warming in the mid levels can make the flake quality deteriorate, even if you never change over.

 

I keep trying to explain that ratios have little to do with the surface and much more to do with aloft, but no one wants to read my posts, so I think I'm gonna stop bothering to make this argument. 

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Surprised no mention of the NAO and that is close to neutral right now and for the friday storm and going more positive according to this outlook - difficult to get any phasing along the coast with the neutral NAO -  storm will be too progressive - so will only be a light to possibly moderate snow accumulation at best .....

 

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao.sprd2.gif

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Surprised no mention of the NAO and that is close to neutral right now and for the friday storm and going more positive according to this outlook - difficult to get any phasing along the coast with the neutral NAO -  storm will be too progressive - so will only be a light to possibly moderate snow accumulation at best .....

 

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao.sprd2.gif[/quote

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I keep trying to explain that ratios have little to do with the surface and much more to do with aloft, but no one wants to read my posts, so I think I'm gonna stop bothering to make this argument. 

I read them and they taught me a lot! Thanks and keep them coming. :grad:

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Take from this what you will but the 12z NOAGPS is coming in very progressive and OTS despite being rather amplified. Could be playing towards its progressive bias. Forms a secondary  off the VA Capes and then barely scrapes the coast.

 

Either way I think it's becoming pretty clear that this event favors eastern zones which should make a lot of folks happier.

 

f96.gif

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Surprised no mention of the NAO and that is close to neutral right now and for the friday storm and going more positive according to this outlook - difficult to get any phasing along the coast with the neutral NAO -  storm will be too progressive - so will only be a light to possibly moderate snow accumulation at best .....

 

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao.sprd2.gif

 

We all now this will likely be a relatively short event, but we can easily pick up 6"+ in a 12 hour or less snow event. I had a foot in less than 10 hours during 1/22/05 and some places got 2 feet in 10 hours during the 12/30/00 storm. I don't think too many people are talking about this being a widespread 10"+ event

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Take from this what you will but the 12z NOAGPS is coming in very progressive and OTS despite being rather amplified. Could be playing towards its progressive bias. Forms a secondary  off the VA Capes and then barely scrapes the coast.

 

Either way I think it's becoming pretty clear that this event favors eastern zones which should make a lot of folks happier.

 

f96.gif

 

Thats not too bad, it aint much more progressive than the GFS is

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We all now this will likely be a relatively short event, but we can easily pick up 6"+ in a 12 hour or less snow event. I had a foot in less than 10 hours during 1/22/05 and some places got 2 feet in 10 hours during the 12/30/00 storm. I don't think too many people are talking about this being a widespread 10"+ event

A widespread 8-12" event is still not off the table assuming that a solution closer to the past few runs of the Euro verifies. These last few years it seems like the Euro is always the one showing the event and the GFS is the new "Dr. NO".

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Surprised no mention of the NAO and that is close to neutral right now and for the friday storm and going more positive according to this outlook - difficult to get any phasing along the coast with the neutral NAO -  storm will be too progressive - so will only be a light to possibly moderate snow accumulation at best .....

 

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao.sprd2.gif

you can mention whatever you'd like to support your opinion, but all one needs to do is look out west to see why the 00z euro gave us a beast and the 12z GFS is a whiff. There is a closed upper level low barreling into the west coast that initially raises heights and gives us a nice transient west coast ridge. The euro keeps this transient ridge until our s/w phases with the northern stream before flattening heights out west, while the gfs does this much earlier, leading downstream to a much flatter, progressive solution for us.

 

at hr 84 on the 00z euro, the 546 line is about 350 miles north of the US-canadian border. At 72 on the 12z GFS its about 150 miles north of the border. Evidence of a flatter ridge out west

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HUH ? you posted 2 days ago on the banter thread " This is what happens when the NAO is neut to pos and theres no blocking causing the SE ridge to flex itself " with an NCEP attachment showing this system coming too far west , with it goin to rain on the coast

Now its progressive . which is it ?

If I did post exactly that in the banter thread I think it was more then 2 days ago the models have changed from the more amped and west solution - you should know that - wasn't just me -we were all worried about mixing issues at that time - the last day or so it has become obvious that this will be 100% frozen event in NYC metro - still as my previous post mentioned with the NAO neutral only light to moderate accumulations at best IMO................

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Right, so assuming that its too progressive and playing towards its bias that would leave potential on the table for this to trend back to the northwest once the Shortwaves have all been better sampled.

 

Which BTW won't occur til the 00Z runs tomorrow night, thats when most show the energy onto the West Coast

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If I did post exactly that in the banter thread I think it was more then 2 days ago the models have changed from the more amped and west solution - you should know that - wasn't just me -we were all worried about mixing issues at that time - the last day or so it has become obvious that this will be 100% frozen event in NYC metro - still as my previous post mentioned with the NAO neutral only light to moderate accumulations at best IMO................

but ask yourself, if the NAO is neut , wouldnt the natural response be for the SE ridge to flex a bit ?

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