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January Pattern and Storm Discussion II


Cold Rain

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Yeah, I see what you mean, if we could have that piece of southern energy break off and than the trailing northern energy phase with it and than dig far enough south....I think we got better luck winning the lottery tonight, but it's atleast something to watch...

Yeah, it's a long shot at this point. I don't even know what it takes to get a true Gulf low anymore.

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Yeah, it's a long shot at this point. I don't even know what it takes to get a true Gulf low anymore.

When I see the 0 line down into Fla. then I'll get excited about sleet/snow chances.  As long as the cold treats Ga. like a swimming pool it's afraid to put more than a toe in, and, only after the moisture moves out, we'll just get bad chances with warm ground to recieve the  non bounty with, lol. One of the z's, maybe the 6 had the cold into Fla. but I'd need to see that for a bunch of runs, or else it's just more of the same light petting, lol.  Still, it's better than last winter all ready, right?  And that's all we wanted, right?  Anything better that last winter?  Lol.  T

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12z GFS did not look bad for 7 days out. It looks like it was a little south of the 6z. Not trying to look at every run (or wishcast) but I do think this could still trend in our favor. We have some good things in our favor this time around: Inital cold air / dew points, cold ground, and  a CAD look showing at the day 7 time frame. Might be Tuesday until we can either get excited or start to look for the next chance.

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12z GFS did not look bad for 7 days out. It looks like it was a little south of the 6z. Not trying to look at every run (or wishcast) but I do think this could still trend in our favor. We have some good things in our favor this time around: Inital cold air / dew points, cold ground, and a CAD look showing at the day 7 time frame. Might be Tuesday until we can either get excited or start to look for the next chance.

Agree Falls. Lots of time for this event to trend better. I think it has potential.

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Well the Euro basically says, "what storm"? Has a clipper type storm coming in on the cold front with a very weak cold chasing rain event...but does it ever get cold. 850 line goes down to Miami on this run. 

 

Not saying you're wrong, but on the 24 hour maps I can see it looks more intriguing than that. At 120...it has a LP developing over SE CO/TX Panhandle whith a northern stream system in MT. Meanwhile...at the same time arctic air is well entrenched over much of the Eastern third of the nation. By day 6 the LP is over the Carolina Apps...so there is something there that will need to be monitored. Plenty of time for this to trend one way or the other, but I would not be surprised to see a stronger southern stream LP tracking further south. We'll see.

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Not saying you're wrong, but on the 24 hour maps I can see it looks more intriguing than that. At 120...it has a LP developing over SE CO/TX Panhandle whith a northern stream system in MT. Meanwhile...at the same time arctic air is well entrenched over much of the Eastern third of the nation. By day 6 the LP is over the Carolina Apps...so there is something there that will need to be monitored. Plenty of time for this to trend one way or the other, but I would not be surprised to see this end up tracking further south. We'll see.

Yes, your right, the northern stream energy was weaker, but it still popped a low. After the last storm where the GFS kicked the Euro's butt at this range we can't discount the GFS at this range.

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This is a classic case where we REALLY need a strong WEST-BASED -NAO and a much further southward placed 50/50 low.  Otherwise, this is a northern MA and New England storm.  Things to watch for include:

 

1.  The placement AND STRENGTH of the ridge out on the west coast for further south trough amplification off of the east coast

2.  Stronger, more southward placed 50/50 low

3.  Stronger block over Greenland (-NAO)

 

I will post a graphic here in just a bit to explain this better.

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idk what everyone is seeing in that storm on the 12z gfs. we are in the warm sector the entire time, with the exception of the cold front passage. if you have a warm front over-running a CAD, the inversion erodes FAST. as seen in the rising dew points ahead of the cold front. this will be all rain for the CAD areas. 

 

can we also stop posting snow maps? because all that does is hype up an event. 

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Here you go.  See graphic below.
 
eastcoaststorm.jpg
 

This is a classic case where we REALLY need a strong WEST-BASED -NAO and a much further southward placed 50/50 low.  Otherwise, this is a northern MA and New England storm.  Things to watch for include:
 
1.  The placement AND STRENGTH of the ridge out on the west coast for further south trough amplification off of the east coast
2.  Stronger, more southward placed 50/50 low
3.  Stronger block over Greenland (-NAO)
 
I will post a graphic here in just a bit to explain this better.

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At the end of the run, there looks to be a split flow developing. It would be nice to see it verify. There is a also weak ridging into cenral Greenland and a weakness in NE Canada which is no bueno. In this type of scenario, you'd want to see a system in the northern stream come by just ahead of something in the southern stream, so that the cold can slide in first. The 240 Euro image is below. It's most certain not to be right.

post-987-0-57499300-1358625765_thumb.gif

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we heard that argument before with the storm in early jan. we can go on about what we need for a storm all day, but we should focus on what we have. 

I have been a member of various forums for several years. It provides an opportunity for professionals and enthusiast alike to discuss debate, interpret, and further our understanding of meteorology. That's what I myself and many others aim to do when signing on. We are the majority on this forum. So, please stop trolling for statements you personally disagree with and taking another opportunity to be condescending. You have done this since I've been a member and it really contributes nothing to the board. Thanks -

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idk what everyone is seeing in that storm on the 12z gfs. we are in the warm sector the entire time, with the exception of the cold front passage. if you have a warm front over-running a CAD, the inversion erodes FAST. as seen in the rising dew points ahead of the cold front. this will be all rain for the CAD areas. 

 

can we also stop posting snow maps? because all that does is hype up an event. 

Everyone is seeing rain, verbatim. Nobody is calling for snow. The prog is probably not going to verify as depicted, so it's ok to talk about how it could trend, one way or the other. We've already seen the bottom of some of these troughs break off and separate from the northern stream. If that happens in this case, it may not then be a clear-cut rain scenario.

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Here you go.  See graphic below.

 

eastcoaststorm.jpg

 

Those are good points. That big low about to crash into the ridge on the west coast will probably keep it from exploding northward like we'd want. Also, given the trends lately, a strong West-based -NAO seems like a long shot, unfortunately. Maybe it'll trend better though. There's still time.

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I have been a member of various forums for several years. It provides an opportunity for professionals and enthusiast alike to discuss debate, interpret, and further our understanding of meteorology. That's what I myself and many others aim to do when signing on. We are the majority on this forum. So, please stop trolling for statements you personally disagree with and taking another opportunity to be condescending. You have done this since I've been a member and it really contributes nothing to the board. Thanks -

 

well said...mp184qcr has a history of these kinds of posts and there's no place for it

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we heard that argument before with the storm in early jan. we can go on about what we need for a storm all day, but we should focus on what we have. 

What we have is a possible storm more than 6 days out, which means we have nothing at the present time. It seems more foolish to proceed from a point of certainty than from one of possibility for a storm more than 150 hours out.

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What we have is a possible storm more than 6 days out, which means we have nothing at the present time. It seems more foolish to proceed from a point of certainty than from one of possibility for a storm more than 150 hours out.

what do you think happens when you have a warm front overrunning a inversion? inversion weakens and dew points go up. it's clearly there on the 12z gfs. 

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Those are good points. That big low about to crash into the ridge on the west coast will probably keep it from exploding northward like we'd want. Also, given the trends lately, a strong West-based -NAO seems like a long shot, unfortunately. Maybe it'll trend better though. There's still time.

I don't think it's a long shot. If you look at the anomaly charts both the GFS and Euro are sniffing out something 168hrs and on...in fact, the euro begins to tank at the end of the run, FWIW. I think both models are sniffing out something and it's most likely not next weeks storm but a storm for the week following, or basically the weekend of Feb 1st.

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