Winter '23-'24 Piss and Moan/Banter Thread

[Powerball]

As nice as GHD 2 was from a total amount and spread-the-wealth standpoint, for this subforum it wasn't really an impressive wind producer nor a storm with particularly heavy rates (compared to its predecessor in 2011).

It was mostly a long duration light/moderate event, lasting over 24 hours (at the peak, rates were maybe 1/2 inch per hour). There was some blowing/drifting towards the end, but again, nothing out of the ordinary for that area.

That could be why it's sort of hard to remember this event, lol.

[michsnowfreak]

12 hours ago, nwohweather said:

February 2015 was absolutely brutal. I remember as a college student struggling along in sub-zero weather to morning classes bundled up like the Michelin man. College of Business was not the shortest walk from my house back then. It was the snowiest February in Toledo history at 25" and second coldest at an average of 12 degrees. 

February 2015 does not get it's fair due, most likely because it followed the historic 2013-14 winter. It was the coldest February on record in many spots in this region, and second place in others only to 1875. And the deep snow didn't even have its chance in the spotlight because it was second to 2014. But had that month occurred in a world where 2013-14 didn't exist, we would be remembering it for its nonstop deep snow. As I mentioned, 2 Februarys in a row where Detroit saw a wall to wall double-digit inch snowdepth. It had never come close to happening before, and boom. Now it happened 2 years in a row. While some in the general public do still remember 2013-14 (its hard not to), you'll hear almost nobody recall 2015 other than a weather weenie. The general public is too busy remembering winters of their childhood with snow to the rooftops...that never happened.

[michsnowfreak]

4 hours ago, Powerball said:

As nice as GHD 2 was from a total amount and spread-the-wealth standpoint, for this subforum it wasn't really an impressive wind producer nor a storm with particularly heavy rates (compared to its predecessor in 2011).

It was mostly a long duration light/moderate event, lasting over 24 hours (at the peak, rates were maybe 1/2 inch per hour). There was some blowing/drifting towards the end, but again, nothing out of the ordinary for that area.

That could be why it's sort of hard to remember this event, lol.

I call bs on this. It's funny that GHDI still did manage to drop 6-10 inches on the area (including TSSN), but due to the fact we dryslotted and didn't get 12 to 18 inches, it's still mentioned by some 13 years and tons of heavy snowfall records later almost like it was like that storm the East Coast had a few decades ago where they were forecast 3 feet and got 0. 

 

But I feel it's those same people that try to minimize GHDII. it was not a storm of light to moderate snow here with half an inch an hour rates at its peak. While it did start and end with rather steady though not heavy snow, the core of the day had very heavy snowfall. Of the almost 17" that I had, 9.5" fell from 12pm-9pm (included DTW obs from 12-9pm which include some intrahour). There was plenty of drifting too. 

[dmc76]

It was a long duration event. 

[Powerball]

11 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

I call bs on this. It's funny that GHDI still did manage to drop 6-10 inches on the area (including TSSN), but due to the fact we dryslotted and didn't get 12 to 18 inches, it's still mentioned by some 13 years and tons of heavy snowfall records later almost like it was like that storm the East Coast had a few decades ago where they were forecast 3 feet and got 0. 

 

But I feel it's those same people that try to minimize GHDII. it was not a storm of light to moderate snow here with half an inch an hour rates at its peak. While it did start and end with rather steady though not heavy snow, the core of the day had very heavy snowfall. Of the almost 17" that I had, 9.5" fell from 12pm-9pm (included DTW obs from 12-9pm which include some intrahour). There was plenty of drifting too. 

I would also say your description of "very heavy snow" is an exaggeration.

Those ground observations you referenced are based more so around visibilities than actual snowfall intensity. With the powdery nature of the snow and the sustained winds around 15-25 MPH, it was pretty easy to accomplish persistent 1/2 (moderate snow) or 1/4 mile (heavy snow) visibilities throughout much of the event. 

That said, I will grant that even DTX admits rates were up to 1" per hour in some areas, with the high ratios helping the snow to accumulate efficiently.

Again, as I stated, it was a nice storm for what it was (a widespread 12"+ snowstorm, for many the biggest of their lifetime). And as I also stated, there was definitely some blowing/drifiting. But let's not over-romanticize how impressive it was either.

[Stebo]

10 minutes ago, Powerball said:

I would also say your description of "very heavy snow" is an exaggeration.

Those ground observations you referenced are based more so around visibilities than actual snowfall intensity. With the powdery nature of the snow and the sustained winds around 15-25 MPH, it was pretty easy to accomplish persistent 1/2 (moderate snow) or 1/4 mile (heavy snow) visibilities throughout much of the event. 

That said, I will grant that even DTX admits rates were up to 1" per hour in some areas, with the high ratios helping the snow to accumulate efficiently.

Again, as I stated, it was a nice storm for what it was (a widespread 12"+ snowstorm, for many the biggest of their lifetime). And as I also stated, there was definitely some blowing/drifiting. But let's not over-romanticize how impressive it was either.

Only you could irrationally shit on a storm that ranks top 5 all time for Detroit.

[dmc76]

For the record, the snow started around 2 AM Sunday morning and ended around 7 AM Monday morning.

 

i’m not diminishing the storm at all. I just know it was a long, duration event. And Steve, forgetting the storm is classic Steve. Complain just to complain. 

[Powerball]

15 minutes ago, dmc76 said:

For the record, the snow started around 2 AM Sunday morning and ended around 7 AM Monday morning.

 

i’m not diminishing the storm at all. I just know it was a long, duration event. And Steve, forgetting the storm is classic Steve. Complain just to complain. 

I get it though.

It was most certainly memorable in terms of the total amounts, how widespread the 12"+ amounts were, and even duration.

But from an observational perspective. I can see how it may have be forgettable if you're one whose preference is for storms with say blizzard conditions, TSSN, 12"+ amount within a short window, etc.

EDIT: BTW, just trying to offer a more nuanced take instead of being quick to bash / criticize Stevo about his memory.

[A-L-E-K]

16 hours ago, Powerball said:

As nice as GHD 2 was from a total amount and spread-the-wealth standpoint, for this subforum it wasn't really an impressive wind producer nor a storm with particularly heavy rates (compared to its predecessor in 2011).

It was mostly a long duration light/moderate event, lasting over 24 hours (at the peak, rates were maybe 1/2 inch per hour). There was some blowing/drifting towards the end, but again, nothing out of the ordinary for that area.

That could be why it's sort of hard to remember this event, lol.

20+ imby

[Malacka11]

8 minutes ago, A-L-E-K said:

20+ imby

I get that the average Joe might not really remember it just for amounts but imo weenies should think back fondly simply for the impressively good trends up until start time. I can really only recall like one other event IMBY since (the 10.X" of concrete we got in early February 2021) that kept looking better and better up to h0, or at least not worse. 

[dmc76]

20 minutes ago, Powerball said:

I get it though.

It was most certainly memorable in terms of the total amounts, how widespread the 12"+ amounts were, and even duration.

But from an observational perspective. I can see how it may have be forgettable if you're one whose preference is for storms with say blizzard conditions, TSSN, 12"+ amount within a short window, etc.

EDIT: BTW, just trying to offer a more nuanced take instead of being quick to bash / criticize Stevo about his memory.

I totally understand what you’re saying. I get it it wasn’t as flashy as most 16 inch storms are. It took 29 hours to get it and I do understand people will forget it because it took forever to get to that point but Detroit is not notorious for 12 inch plus events so I don’t know how people could forget about it and somebody like Steve chooses to forget about it because he just likes to complain about Southeast Michigan, that’s my opinion 

[dmc76]

The only 16 inch plus storm that I can remember that was done within 12 hours was that New Year’s Eve 2008 storm and that’s as rare as it gets around here. 

[Powerball]

14 minutes ago, dmc76 said:

The only 16 inch plus storm that I can remember that was done within 12 hours was that New Year’s Eve 2008 storm and that’s as rare as it gets around here. 

Yeah, now that was definitely an impressive storm by all measures.

But as you say, extremely rare and unlikely to be repeated any time soon.

[michsnowfreak]

3 hours ago, Powerball said:

I would also say your description of "very heavy snow" is an exaggeration.

Those ground observations you referenced are based more so around visibilities than actual snowfall intensity. With the powdery nature of the snow and the sustained winds around 15-25 MPH, it was pretty easy to accomplish persistent 1/2 (moderate snow) or 1/4 mile (heavy snow) visibilities throughout much of the event. 

That said, I will grant that even DTX admits rates were up to 1" per hour in some areas, with the high ratios helping the snow to accumulate efficiently.

Again, as I stated, it was a nice storm for what it was (a widespread 12"+ snowstorm, for many the biggest of their lifetime). And as I also stated, there was definitely some blowing/drifiting. But let's not over-romanticize how impressive it was either.

Snow rates were at or above 1"/hr in the afternoon. DTW had 6.1" from 1pm-7pm 2-1-15. You joke for that storm to not be over-romanticized despite the heavy total, but yet some have no problem exaggerating the bust of 2-1-11. This pic was taken 2-2-11, but I would expect to see no snow the way some people act like GHD1 busted lol.

[michsnowfreak]

2 hours ago, Stebo said:

Only you could irrationally shit on a storm that ranks top 5 all time for Detroit.

I mean I never said rates were crazy. Events with crazy rates like Feb 4, 2021 (3" in 1 hour) or Dec 19, 2008 (2-3"/hr for a few hrs) are not talked about because the snowfall total wasnt crazy/they were short events. So now lets criticize a 16.7" storm for only having 1"/hr rates for hours lol. 

 

I remember multiple storms with heavier rates than GHDII, but to have that much accumulation from 1 storm was impressive. 

[Stevo6899]

18 hours ago, Powerball said:

As nice as GHD 2 was from a total amount and spread-the-wealth standpoint, for this subforum it wasn't really an impressive wind producer nor a storm with particularly heavy rates (compared to its predecessor in 2011).

It was mostly a long duration light/moderate event, lasting over 24 hours (at the peak, rates were maybe 1/2 inch per hour). There was some blowing/drifting towards the end, but again, nothing out of the ordinary for that area.

That could be why it's sort of hard to remember this event, lol.

Yea that could be why I don't recall this storm. I didnt know not remembering something comes off as complaining. Maybe because it didn't include crazy rates. I will always remember that nye storm in 08 with the 4 inches per hour rates. I will always remember chicago getting more snow than us ghd1/2. Our standards in detroit are so low that I guess we should remember every event over a foot, even if it takes 24 hours to accumulate.

[Lightning]

2 hours ago, dmc76 said:

I totally understand what you’re saying. I get it it wasn’t as flashy as most 16 inch storms are. It took 29 hours to get it and I do understand people will forget it because it took forever to get to that point but Detroit is not notorious for 12 inch plus events so I don’t know how people could forget about it and somebody like Steve chooses to forget about it because he just likes to complain about Southeast Michigan, that’s my opinion 

Of course there is Powerball that moves to TX but yet come here to troll the SE MI posters.  

[Stevo6899]

2 minutes ago, Lightning said:

Of course there is Powerball that moves to TX but yet come here to troll the SE MI posters.  

Yea he's not trolling. He's just on the same page as me. Still waiting for the detroit big dog everyone will remember.

[Stebo]

29 minutes ago, Stevo6899 said:

Yea he's not trolling. He's just on the same page as me. Still waiting for the detroit big dog everyone will remember.

I remember us getting 15" of snow. How could someone not...

[Lightning]

1 hour ago, Stevo6899 said:

Yea he's not trolling. He's just on the same page as me. Still waiting for the detroit big dog everyone will remember.

He has been playing the same game for a long time!!

There have been plenty of big dogs and lots of people remember them.  Your choice not too because your desire is a EC type storm with 3'+ and constant blizzard.  I suggest you move!

[michsnowfreak]

24 minutes ago, Stebo said:

I remember us getting 15" of snow. How could someone not...

Agree. 16-17" downriver. 

[RCNYILWX]

Widespread 1' plus totals in a single event are pretty rare at this general latitude. Outside of the mountain areas, they're more common in the upper Midwest/northern Plains and the east coast.

I'd say however it was reached rates wise, big dog type totals make for a memorable storm, and particularly intense rates add to the historical nature of the event. GHD II happening just 4 years after GHD I may have at the time made it stand out slightly less in this area. But when you look at the big picture, it was fluky to have another true big dog event in such a short timespan. Prior to those storms, you have to go back to the 99 blizzard for an event with the large expanse of big dog totals.

[Powerball]

2 hours ago, michsnowfreak said:

Snow rates were at or above 1"/hr in the afternoon. DTW had 6.1" from 1pm-7pm 2-1-15. You joke for that storm to not be over-romanticized despite the heavy total, but yet some have no problem exaggerating the bust of 2-1-11. This pic was taken 2-2-11, but I would expect to see no snow the way some people act like GHD1 busted lol.

I think everyone can agree GHD 1 was still a nice storm, just as GHD 2 was a nice storm, their objective flaws aside.

Again, just offering a balanced perspective about GHD 2 in particular instead of dogpiling on Stevo.

[michsnowfreak]

2 hours ago, Powerball said:

I think everyone can agree GHD 1 was still a nice storm, just as GHD 2 was a nice storm, their objective flaws aside.

Again, just offering a balanced perspective about GHD 2 in particular instead of dogpiling on Stevo.

Thats a more balanced approach. When I think of GHDI, I think of how 3 days later we all got 4-6 inches of "partly sunny". Talk about a snow blindsiding forecasters. Then, on Feb 20, what was supposed to be 1-3" of snow turning to freezing rain once again shocked us by being all snow, complete with TSSN, and dropping 10". We MORE than made up for it, and Feb 2011 is Detroits 2nd snowiest Feb (31.7"), behind only 1908. It was also the 4th snowiest month on record (at the time 3rd), behind only Jan 2014, Feb 1908, & Dec 1974.

 

Ive said all the good about GHDII itself, but another thing it did was lay down a deep snowpack for the record cold the next 5 weeks would bring. There was a few inches on the ground pre-storm, but unlike the nonstop storms of 2013-14, in 2014-15 it was a big one-hit wonder (otherwise all nickels and dimes).

 

We have come back to earth since 2016. What I wouldnt give to relive the 2007-15 glory days and all the silly weenie complaints we had at the time during what was the best snow stretch on record. Some complaints of the time- some complained about a storm in 2011 for not dropping enough snow in a month that saw 32". Some complained in 2008 because Detroit got 72" while Madison got 99". My God were we spoiled. In the 7 winters from 2007-08 thru 2013-14, Detroit averaged 59.8". And that INCLUDES the clunker 2011-12. In the 9 winters since, the average has dropped down to, well, near average, at 42.9".

 

One more 2015 post storm pic to show why it was my favorite 

[Lightning]

18 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

Thats a more balanced approach. When I think of GHDI, I think of how 3 days later we all got 4-6 inches of "partly sunny". Talk about a snow blindsiding forecasters. Then, on Feb 20, what was supposed to be 1-3" of snow turning to freezing rain once again shocked us by being all snow, complete with TSSN, and dropping 10". We MORE than made up for it, and Feb 2011 is Detroits 2nd snowiest Feb (31.7"), behind only 1908. It was also the 4th snowiest month on record (at the time 3rd), behind only Jan 2014, Feb 1908, & Dec 1974.

 

Ive said all the good about GHDII itself, but another thing it did was lay down a deep snowpack for the record cold the next 5 weeks would bring. There was a few inches on the ground pre-storm, but unlike the nonstop storms of 2013-14, in 2014-15 it was a big one-hit wonder (otherwise all nickels and dimes).

 

We have come back to earth since 2016. What I wouldnt give to relive the 2007-15 glory days and all the silly weenie complaints we had at the time during what was the best snow stretch on record. Some complaints of the time- some complained about a storm in 2011 for not dropping enough snow in a month that saw 32". Some complained in 2008 because Detroit got 72" while Madison got 99". My God were we spoiled. In the 7 winters from 2007-08 thru 2013-14, Detroit averaged 59.8". And that INCLUDES the clunker 2011-12. In the 9 winters since, the average has dropped down to, well, near average, at 42.9".

 

One more 2015 post storm pic to show why it was my favorite 

My area still is finding a way to get near with mostly above average snowfall winters, with only 16/17 being a stinker being well below average, in the past 10 years. 

 I use the full average not just 30 year averages.

[michsnowfreak]

6 hours ago, Lightning said:

My area still is finding a way to get near with mostly above average snowfall winters, with only 16/17 being a stinker being well below average, in the past 10 years. 

 I use the full average not just 30 year averages.

We certainly have managed to do okay in the total snowfall department in winters that are subpar in many places. But some of the winters have lacked prolonged "deep winter" stretches. 

[Stevo6899]

On 2/6/2024 at 2:03 PM, Powerball said:

I think everyone can agree GHD 1 was still a nice storm, just as GHD 2 was a nice storm, their objective flaws aside.

Again, just offering a balanced perspective about GHD 2 in particular instead of dogpiling on Stevo.

Yup not saying ghd2 sucked or anything. I just didn't recall it as per the reasons I explained. They can dog pile, it's all good. Everyone has different criteria for big dogs and what gets them excited. Long duration events dont do it for me anymore. Also I am not expecting a noreaster 3 foot storm. Just a 2 footer not taking 36 hours. One day maybe...

[CheeselandSkies]

GHD I was fun; although (at least in Milwaukee, where I was living at the time) the wind caused so much drifting that the snow depth elsewhere didn't really seem all that impressive to me. I have no memory at all of GHD II, as I don't think it affected southern Wisconsin all that much in terms of noteworthy totals.

[mississaugasnow]

On 2/6/2024 at 11:38 AM, michsnowfreak said:

I mean I never said rates were crazy. Events with crazy rates like Feb 4, 2021 (3" in 1 hour) or Dec 19, 2008 (2-3"/hr for a few hrs) are not talked about because the snowfall total wasnt crazy/they were short events. So now lets criticize a 16.7" storm for only having 1"/hr rates for hours lol. 

 

I remember multiple storms with heavier rates than GHDII, but to have that much accumulation from 1 storm was impressive. 

That month was great but more for the deep snowpack for the month. GHDII was only a 9" storm here (Hamilton/west end GTA). But we had over 12" on the ground for almost the entire month and half the month had 16-20" snow depth (Hamilton) 

Toronto only got 5" from that storm but still had an impressive 6-8" on the ground for the entire month. 

[cyclone77]

Pretty kewl to have the local NWS talking about tors in the AFD on Feb 7th