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The 2022 - 2023 Ski Season Thread


Skivt2
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18 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:


Aren’t they getting a big lift upgrade this year?


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Yeah they’re finally replacing the old summit chair which takes 7.5 hours to make it to the top. It’s going to be a game changer, I love that section at the top, it’s got beautiful scenery and a really nice vibe but was so painful to get to. Expected to be in place for the next ski season. 

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Yeah they’re finally replacing the old summit chair which takes 7.5 hours to make it to the top. It’s going to be a game changer, I love that section at the top, it’s got beautiful scenery and a really nice vibe but was so painful to get to. Expected to be in place for the next ski season. 

NH got the views…

94ecf6b2d6060f93e8e818e0e315f1cf.jpg


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These dumpy winters separate out the places with big budget snowmaking vs the rest.  Magic for example is trying to open Thursday after being closed since New Year’s Day.  Likely they open for one day and are closed or extremely limited for the holiday weekend.  Sad state of affairs indeed.  One of the better places to ski in New England when they have snow! 

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4 minutes ago, GCWarrior said:

These dumpy winters separate out the places with big budget snowmaking vs the rest.  Magic for example is trying to open Thursday after being closed since New Year’s Day.  Likely they open for one day and are closed or extremely limited for the holiday weekend.  Sad state of affairs indeed.  One of the better places to ski in New England when they have snow! 

MRG is closed too.

These are core periods of the year to generate revenue for many of the mountains.  Especially the smaller guys who generally fly tighter financially, the missed revenue being closed during the peak operating season cannot be made up. You want to be running out of parking right now, instead of shuttering lifts.  These winters do hit all businesses, but especially the smaller operations.

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8 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Rumors are a new lift on west side of Pleasant Mtn from Jordan Quad.  Existing Summit Triple to only go to mid-station and a new Summit Lodge.

Hadn’t heard about the summit lodge, they are extremely limited it terms of space at the summit. The jordan chair is already on site in storage. No doubt they will invest elsewhere and have some room for trail expansion and real estate development off the west side if they want to do that. As a local I can tell you there’s a lot of excitement about the name change and to see what boyne will do, especially since they are a known quantity with SR up the road.  The ability for them to print money with night skiing is real and boyne knows how to do this already at Brighton 

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3 minutes ago, NW_of_GYX said:

Hadn’t heard about the summit lodge, they are extremely limited it terms of space at the summit. The jordan chair is already on site in storage. No doubt they will invest elsewhere and have some room for trail expansion and real estate development off the west side if they want to do that. As a local I can tell you there’s a lot of excitement about the name change and to see what boyne will do, especially since they are a known quantity with SR up the road.  The ability for them to print money with night skiing is real and boyne knows how to do this already at Brighton 

Where in Bridgton are you?  My family owned a place in Knights Hill from 1979-2021.  I learned to ski at Pleasant Mtn when the novice areas was across the street from the base lodge.  Grew up riding Old Blue with no bar to protect from fall.

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9 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Where in Bridgton are you?  My family owned a place in Knights Hill from 1979-2021.  I learned to ski at Pleasant Mtn when the novice areas was across the street from the base lodge.  Grew up riding Old Blue with no bar to protect from fall.

Ok so you’ve seen it in its heyday. I’m right in town. This can be a good weenie spot for snow as you know, but it’s been a few years and we are due.

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2 hours ago, powderfreak said:

MRG is closed too.

These are core periods of the year to generate revenue for many of the mountains.  Especially the smaller guys who generally fly tighter financially, the missed revenue being closed during the peak operating season cannot be made up. You want to be running out of parking right now, instead of shuttering lifts.  These winters do hit all businesses, but especially the smaller operations.

I know I will get some flack for saying this but the run up in prices in resort real estate was driven by an insane sudden demand that seemed to be a perfect storm of people wanting to suddenly get outside, people wanting to go to resorts when they left the city and people wanting to capitalize on the folks who could only visit short term by buying up stuff and renting it for a profit.  
 

If demand falls for short term rentals due to this weather and the realization by the masses that ski season is fickle in New England, I won’t shed a tear.  It might be worth a ratter or two just to burn it all down. Maybe some of the new people who don’t really fit in with the old ways will bail too.  It’s getting harder for the mountain characters and hard partying seasonal ski houses and seasonal rental customers as well as the devoted locals and impossible for new recruits to that ski bum scene.  Meanwhile I meet the “we just moved here where can I buy stuff? We don’t have a clue how to survive in VT and never visited before but we moved here becuae it’s the “in” thing to do, can someone come get paid $15 a night to do our dishes or $15 a week to clean our hot tub? crowd” a lot these days.  Maybe they will get bored and march right back where they came from.

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I know I will get some flack for saying this but the run up in prices in resort real estate was driven by an insane sudden demand that seemed to be a perfect storm of people wanting to suddenly get outside, people wanting to go to resorts when they left the city and people wanting to capitalize on the folks who could only visit short term by buying up stuff and renting it for a profit.  
 
If demand falls for short term rentals due to this weather and the realization by the masses that ski season is fickle in New England, I won’t shed a tear.  It might be worth a ratter or two just to burn it all down. Maybe some of the new people who don’t really fit in with the old ways will bail too.  It’s getting harder for the mountain characters and hard partying seasonal ski houses and seasonal rental customers as well as the devoted locals and impossible for new recruits to that ski bum scene.  Meanwhile I meet the “we just moved here where can I buy stuff? We don’t have a clue how to survive in VT and never visited before but we moved here becuae it’s the “in” thing to do, can someone come get paid $15 a night to do our dishes or $15 a week to clean our hot tub? crowd” a lot these days.  Maybe they will get bored and march right back where they came from.

“Maybe some of the new people who don’t really fit in with the old ways will bail too”

Perhaps we can have you stand by the welcome to Vermont sign and decide who fits in and who doesn’t. It’s well worth the cost of people’s business, property etc. As long as they look a certain way and say the right things, right?


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6 hours ago, Skivt2 said:

I know I will get some flack for saying this but the run up in prices in resort real estate was driven by an insane sudden demand that seemed to be a perfect storm of people wanting to suddenly get outside, people wanting to go to resorts when they left the city and people wanting to capitalize on the folks who could only visit short term by buying up stuff and renting it for a profit.  
 

If demand falls for short term rentals due to this weather and the realization by the masses that ski season is fickle in New England, I won’t shed a tear.  It might be worth a ratter or two just to burn it all down. Maybe some of the new people who don’t really fit in with the old ways will bail too.  It’s getting harder for the mountain characters and hard partying seasonal ski houses and seasonal rental customers as well as the devoted locals and impossible for new recruits to that ski bum scene.  Meanwhile I meet the “we just moved here where can I buy stuff? We don’t have a clue how to survive in VT and never visited before but we moved here becuae it’s the “in” thing to do, can someone come get paid $15 a night to do our dishes or $15 a week to clean our hot tub? crowd” a lot these days.  Maybe they will get bored and march right back where they came from.

Well , prices do need to come down in real estate . I can’t blame folks for using their means to buy things they are legally able to in states who want their money . Canada just enacted a law on New Years making it much harder for non citizens to speculate on real estate which had driven up prices and drove down affordability and lowering that demand will help moderate prices when combined with  the much higher mortgage interest rates . 
 

Also if seasonal rentals or the air Bnb out of state owners see their income stream dwindle you will probably see an influx of those homes Go on the market , the lack of supply in the market is certainly keeping prices from falling back down to earth , and I’m sure home owners didn’t realize or didn’t really mind the federal reserve blew a bubble in asset prices yet again , particularly in home values as they were buying Mortgage backed securities to support the market a year after many warned inflation was getting hot  and the economy had already bounced back . This led to a 20% Annual rise in home values (on paper..) During 2021 .and even the March 2021 to March 2022 period (while wages went up 3%)  (which = unsustainable) and now housing affordability is still at the lowest ever . 

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Well , prices do need to come down in real estate . I can’t blame folks for using their means to buy things they are legally able to in states who want their money . Canada just enacted a law on New Years making it much harder for non citizens to speculate on real estate which had driven up prices and drove down affordability and lowering that demand will help moderate prices when combined with  the much higher mortgage interest rates . 
 
Also if seasonal rentals or the air Bnb out of state owners see their income stream dwindle you will probably see an influx of those homes Go on the market , the lack of supply in the market is certainly keeping prices from falling back down to earth , and I’m sure home owners didn’t realize or didn’t really mind the federal reserve blew a bubble in asset prices yet again , particularly in home values as they were buying Mortgage backed securities to support the market a year after many warned inflation was getting hot  and the economy had already bounced back . This led to a 20% Annual rise in home values (on paper..) During 2021 .and even the March 2021 to March 2022 period (while wages went up 3%)  (which = unsustainable) and now housing affordability is still at the lowest ever . 

People who never could/would buy a 2nd home did because rates were below 3 percent. Their payments were so low, it became profitable to STR it. The fed has made it clear that party is over til at least 2024 or beyond. Used to be you rent for a few weeks to cover expenses, but the profit has become to great to ignore. We like to rent the 2-3 big weeks to cover the taxes. we have rental property in jersey and could do well with this place up here, but we didn’t buy our place here for that purpose; we bought it to use it for us and the kids and to be honest, I’d be perfectly content not renting it out at all. I’m probably the minority though, just because I love the place and the mountain so much, and want to end up living up here full time eventually.


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11 hours ago, NW_of_GYX said:

Ok so you’ve seen it in its heyday. I’m right in town. This can be a good weenie spot for snow as you know, but it’s been a few years and we are due.

Looking forward to the brewery opening. Like the Little Tap House too, but haven't been in awhile. We should hook up for a pint sometime.

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1 hour ago, Lava Rock said:

Looking forward to the brewery opening. Like the Little Tap House too, but haven't been in awhile. We should hook up for a pint sometime.

Ya that’s going to be great when it opens. Bridgton is on the map these days. Tap house is fun too. Seems like there’s enough southern Maine/NH forum members at this point to do a gtg out this way 

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On 1/10/2023 at 12:47 AM, bwt3650 said:


“Maybe some of the new people who don’t really fit in with the old ways will bail too”

Perhaps we can have you stand by the welcome to Vermont sign and decide who fits in and who doesn’t. It’s well worth the cost of people’s business, property etc. As long as they look a certain way and say the right things, right?


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I expected flack so that’s fine. What was always super cool about Vermont was that the only people there, whether newcomer or local, were folks who really wanted to be there because they fell in love with it.  But the recent influx of people seems to be more people who don’t love it per se but just wanted to escape from where they came from to a place someone said was cool and a good investment.  Its disturbing to see the regulars and locals, who made the place a funky cool place for years, struggle while people who have never even been to the place move in, sight unseen, and then expect that there are tribes of people desperate for money and looking to “serve” them.  Some of us, sounds like you included, love the place and have for years.  But if you did not buy a place before the Covid shock then you are SOL.  Some of us in the local community have been working hard, renting, going to school, with the goal of buying in the place we love.  To get pushed out by people looking to escape somewhere else or who are looking to make a buck, opportunistically, off a place they don’t really care about, is pretty hard to swallow.  I hate ratter winters.  But I’m not going to apologize for hoping the supply of Airbnb’s outstrips demand, making the investments not worth retaining because of a few bad winters.  Im not sorry for hoping some of the newcomers decide it’s not fun having to drive 40 minutes to buy groceries or that their kids school is two towns over or that no one local is willing to maintain their hot tub or come over to wash their Saturday dinner dishes for $15 a week.   Maybe if they realize they gave up all their creature comforts to be in VT and that it’s a not as much fun as they thought it would be in a bad winter, some of them will move.  And then maybe the prices will moderate to the point where normal people like nurses and teachers can afford to buy houses there again.  sorry, not sorry.

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58 minutes ago, Skivt2 said:

I expected flack so that’s fine. What was always super cool about Vermont was that the only people there, whether newcomer or local, were folks who really wanted to be there because they fell in love with it.  But the recent influx of people seems to be more people who don’t love it per se but just wanted to escape from where they came from to a place someone said was cool and a good investment.  Its disturbing to see the regulars and locals, who made the place a funky cool place for years, struggle while people who have never even been to the place move in, sight unseen, and then expect that there are tribes of people desperate for money and looking to “serve” them.  Some of us, sounds like you included, love the place and have for years.  But if you did not buy a place before the Covid shock then you are SOL.  Some of us in the local community have been working hard, renting, going to school, with the goal of buying in the place we love.  To get pushed out by people looking to escape somewhere else or who are looking to make a buck, opportunistically, off a place they don’t really care about, is pretty hard to swallow.  I hate ratter winters.  But I’m not going to apologize for hoping the supply of Airbnb’s outstrips demand, making the investments not worth retaining because of a few bad winters.  Im not sorry for hoping some of the newcomers decide it’s not fun having to drive 40 minutes to buy groceries or that their kids school is two towns over or that no one local is willing to maintain their hot tub or come over to wash their Saturday dinner dishes for $15 a week.   Maybe if they realize they gave up all their creature comforts to be in VT and that it’s a not as much fun as they thought it would be in a bad winter, some of them will move.  And then maybe the prices will moderate to the point where normal people like nurses and teachers can afford to buy houses there again.  sorry, not sorry.

Housing prices are very high everywhere, not just Vermont. 

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3 hours ago, Skivt2 said:

I expected flack so that’s fine. What was always super cool about Vermont was that the only people there, whether newcomer or local, were folks who really wanted to be there because they fell in love with it.  But the recent influx of people seems to be more people who don’t love it per se but just wanted to escape from where they came from to a place someone said was cool and a good investment.  Its disturbing to see the regulars and locals, who made the place a funky cool place for years, struggle while people who have never even been to the place move in, sight unseen, and then expect that there are tribes of people desperate for money and looking to “serve” them.  Some of us, sounds like you included, love the place and have for years.  But if you did not buy a place before the Covid shock then you are SOL.  Some of us in the local community have been working hard, renting, going to school, with the goal of buying in the place we love.  To get pushed out by people looking to escape somewhere else or who are looking to make a buck, opportunistically, off a place they don’t really care about, is pretty hard to swallow.  I hate ratter winters.  But I’m not going to apologize for hoping the supply of Airbnb’s outstrips demand, making the investments not worth retaining because of a few bad winters.  Im not sorry for hoping some of the newcomers decide it’s not fun having to drive 40 minutes to buy groceries or that their kids school is two towns over or that no one local is willing to maintain their hot tub or come over to wash their Saturday dinner dishes for $15 a week.   Maybe if they realize they gave up all their creature comforts to be in VT and that it’s a not as much fun as they thought it would be in a bad winter, some of them will move.  And then maybe the prices will moderate to the point where normal people like nurses and teachers can afford to buy houses there again.  sorry, not sorry.

We may disagree on some of this, but I do share your passion for the life up here and admire your honesty.  None of us have an infinite number of winters to enjoy, so I'm not willing to piss one or two of them away rooting for crap conditions (though in reality, none of us have any control) Life is full of a-holes.  They're not the people I'm skiing with or hanging at the bar afterward with so they don't bother me.  The market will correct itself; it always does.  

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15 hours ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

Outside of heli skiing in Alaska, it’s hard to beat little cottonwood canyon when they get locked into a good cycle. It just dumps there. Here’s a pretty cool article and vid on what it’s like to be there when they go into interlodge. https://www.alta.com/stories/interlodge

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