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Early Winter Banter, Observations & General Discussion 2017


powderfreak

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54 minutes ago, CT Rain said:

This write up from Bob Henson makes a lot more sense and seems like a much more accurate version - https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/new-study-larger-more-intense-us-storm-complexes-way?__prclt=RPx0M8fN

This is a more scientific way of looking at it, vs what the previous author said. I don't think it's necessarily updrafts becoming huge and swallowing entire counties..rather than heavier rates and probably larger areas of stratiform rainfall. Of course storm motion probably matters the most in all of this. The public consumes all of this, and I think the community needs to be careful of how they communicate it.

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2 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

If this were a month later, it would be quite the wx conundrum. Probably still rain to start, but flip to ice and snow at the end during the morning. No bueno performance by the GFS. 

Yeah, Air mass out ahead is to warm and precip is gone when the CF comes thru, Backside stuff typically doesn't work out up here anyways, We watch, We wait, Going to be a long winter season if this is what we have for a performing GFS model.

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4 hours ago, Damage In Tolland said:

Enjoy 50 today and 55 Saturday 

That's probably more normal than a day like yesterday when the high temp was lower than the average minimum.  This morning's low was 16F, about -10 departure.

Average here today is 43F for a high...its not supposed to have highs of 24F.  As good as it feels to step right into winter, its just not how it goes.  Its still only November 21st.

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4 hours ago, dendrite said:

AGW is real, but those hype studies always make me laugh. 80% more rain? lawl...maybe once palm trees start becoming native to NH again.

I like this part:

the total amount of rain in the U.S. South is projected to jump 80 percent between now and the end of the century

who is going to be around to verify that?

 

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43 minutes ago, CoolMike said:

Does Groton, MA count as SNE or CNE?

It's subjective. I feel like most of MA north of a PSF-ORH-LWM line is more like the sensible wx of southern NH than most of CT/RI and the rest of MA...but again, it's all really subjective.

I personally just use CNE as a term to imply the interior of New England roughly north of the pike but south of the far northern areas like the White Mts over to northern Greens...basically stating that I am including some reasonable populations centers and not only talking about the northern mountains or Maine north of PWM. The exact location can shift form event to event...but usually I specify roads as boundaries rather than using generic subjective terms like "CNE" once an event is close enough to be more precise (I.E. north of rt 2 or N of the NH border or N of the pike). If further out, that is when I might say "oh that day 4-5 threat looks pretty interesting for CNE"....details can be hashed out later.

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22 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

It's subjective. I feel like most of MA north of a PSF-ORH-LWM line is more like the sensible wx of southern NH than most of CT/RI and the rest of MA...but again, it's all really subjective.

I personally just use CNE as a term to imply the interior of New England roughly north of the pike but south of the far northern areas like the White Mts over to northern Greens...basically stating that I am including some reasonable populations centers and not only talking about the northern mountains or Maine north of PWM. The exact location can shift form event to event...but usually I specify roads as boundaries rather than using generic subjective terms like "CNE" once an event is close enough to be more precise (I.E. north of rt 2 or N of the NH border or N of the pike). If further out, that is when I might say "oh that day 4-5 threat looks pretty interesting for CNE"....details can be hashed out later.

Perfect description... I also look at CNE as interior New England from like Pike up to Lakes Region latitude.  And it does change a bit depending on the event.  It's just an easier way to describe events as NNE and SNE can both mean many different spots.  I think of like the MA/NH/VT border areas as the epicenter of CNE, lol.

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4 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

LOL, "covering an entire city instead of half of it." What the hell does that even mean? These people who know nothing about operational meteorology are studying computer models, taking it 100% and then throwing out this stuff. Go back and read the tree rings. I believe in AGW, but some of this stuff doesn't even make sense meteorologically.

+1.
I assume the bolded was intended as snark, but it reminds me of my issues concerning use of dendrochronology to support AGW hypotheses.  Except where trees are at the extreme edges of their ranges, temp change exerts a teeny tiny effect on diameter growth compared to growing season precip.  And since the hottest days in a warming climate are apt to often be in droughty stretches (less clouds, less water vapor to heat), temps and moisture would be working at odds with each other.  Tree ring analysis is much more useful in identifying past droughts.

Looks like a fairly calm short-medium stretch ahead, with some rollercoaster temps averaging out near normal.  I'm -3.2 so far this month, +8.0 for 1-6, then -7.2 since then, with only this past Sunday AN since 11/6.  Will need to approach 50 this afternoon to finish the day AN; my avg is 41/23, and it was 18 at 9 PM obs time last evening, under the stars.

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22 minutes ago, tamarack said:

 I'm -3.2 so far this month, +8.0 for 1-6, then -7.2 since then, with only this past Sunday AN since 11/6.  Will need to approach 50 this afternoon to finish the day AN; my avg is 41/23, and it was 18 at 9 PM obs time last evening, under the stars.

So far shaping up to be a frigid November relative to normal.  

I forget how high climo still is so these days like 27/19, 33/13, 27/13 are way down at like -15.  

MVL currently -4.5, MPV is -3.9, 1V4 is -3.7.  

MVL definitely has taken advantage of rad cooling and low level inversions a bit better in these cold shots.

 

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This is going to be hilarious if/when today's "torch" comes in below normal for the day.

Normal is 43/26.

So far today we are 49/16 for a -3.  

We took full advantage of fresh, cold, fluffy snow cover and radiational cooling last night to get to 16F this morning and now it's T-shirt weather.  But not sure we can over come the -10 departure on the minimum.  

Its funny how small things like yesterday's snow can impact the overnight temps so much that a torch day is struggling to get to even normal.  But that's how you run a -4.5 November to date.  Make torches less great again.

 

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1 hour ago, ORH_wxman said:

It's subjective. I feel like most of MA north of a PSF-ORH-LWM line is more like the sensible wx of southern NH than most of CT/RI and the rest of MA...but again, it's all really subjective.

I personally just use CNE as a term to imply the interior of New England roughly north of the pike but south of the far northern areas like the White Mts over to northern Greens...basically stating that I am including some reasonable populations centers and not only talking about the northern mountains or Maine north of PWM. The exact location can shift form event to event...but usually I specify roads as boundaries rather than using generic subjective terms like "CNE" once an event is close enough to be more precise (I.E. north of rt 2 or N of the NH border or N of the pike). If further out, that is when I might say "oh that day 4-5 threat looks pretty interesting for CNE"....details can be hashed out later.

This makes sense, thanks!

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34 minutes ago, J Paul Gordon said:

Kevin is already freaking about a long "torch" next week. He seems to have some inside info that every weather site from the NWS to Accuweather can't seem to see. Is this the first sign of a fly in the ointment? a catastrophic turn back toward the Permian conditions of October? stay tuned.

Latest couple Euro runs do seem to have backed off of the cold a bit over the next 10 days.  Not saying panic mode by any means but it does seem to show more of a zonal flow.

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