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Winter Speculation 17/18 -December Thread


AMZ8990

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1 hour ago, Carvers Gap said:

12z GFS w yet another variation.  Not sure I have ever seen that model struggle this badly....this is 4-5 days out and is just throwing darts.  I do buy suppression as a potential problem.  The CMC looks reasonable....only because something should be riding the Arctic boundary and because it keeps showing the same thing.

Its absolutely terrible right now, I would trust the CMC/RGEM/Ukmet more than anything right now.  I said this in the other forum, GDOT is changing companies that provide them with their weather modeling and forecasting to Meteocentre because they have been dead on, especially with last storm.  GDOT was not at all happy with their current company on contract, and the company I work for is in the process of procurement to bring Meteocentre on next month.  The GFS operational is almost worthless right now.

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As Carver mentioned yesterday, "don't necessarily look at the snowfall maps look at the pattern". We had been pretty dry priOr to this week.  Then all of a sudden we get two massive rains in less than a week.  I think that's a good sign for the next few weeks.  I've got a pond that doesn't hold water well in my front yard.  It has been dry since the spring.  After yesterday's event I now have my acre pond back, it's probably about 6 ft deep in the middle as well.  Hopefully that all translates to a continuation of More precipitation over the next week or two. 

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The 12z Euro was a pretty nice setup. It wasn’t like the 0z GFS but I don’t think we will see a run quite like that again.

This run was probably as good as we can hope for with regards to storm track and the orientation of the energy swinging thru. The wave dug a little more and was a little more negatively tilted. The thermals gave most of TN an ice storm with 6+ inches of snow along the mountains and KY/VA borders.

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2 minutes ago, BlunderStorm said:

The NAVGEM may be on to something, it has shown the past two runs on Tuesday some snow sliding under high pressure. It may be on to a little something...

Wouldn't surprise me, NAVGEM has handled systems pretty well This month.  I've got a chance at flurries tomorrow now, nobody was predicting that over the past few days.

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The system is going through Asia tomorrow,not sure the Euro isnt to fast on the Euro.I'm on my wifes PC from the hospital so i cant post pics,we are at the Wilderness water park.But using the East Asia rule 6-10 days,it's slightly to fast

 

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=ecmwf&region=wpac&pkg=z500a&runtime=2017122312&fh=24&xpos=0&ypos=66

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I'd love to see the models begin to show some consistency on track. Of course that won't likely happen until 36-48 hours before the storm. Right now it appears at least that the cutter solutions are way less likely. The upper level pattern across eastern Canada doesn't support cutting.  The needle will have to be threaded again. I sure wish we could have a forum wide sure thing. It's just nearly impossible due to the way the forum is laid out east to west. 

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Just now, John1122 said:

I'd love to see the models begin to show some consistency on track. Of course that won't likely happen until 36-48 hours before the storm. Right now it appears at least that the cutter solutions are way less likely. The upper level pattern across eastern Canada doesn't support cutting.  The needle will have to be threaded again. I sure wish we could have a forum wide sure thing. It's just nearly impossible due to the way the forum is laid out east to west. 

Agree,we need some sort of wave breaker.The 5h maps look like a jigsaw puzzle with a more or less zonal flow through the Valley

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The NAVGEM may be on to something, it has shown the past two runs on Tuesday some snow sliding under high pressure. It may be on to a little something...


NAVGEM also lost our main storm to suppression.

I think the GFS is a little lost right now. The Euro, CMC, GEFS AND GEPS have been more consistent with a storm at this time frame.
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5 minutes ago, 1234snow said:

 


NAVGEM also lost our main storm to suppression.

I think the GFS is a little lost right now. The Euro, CMC, GEFS AND GEPS have been more consistent with a storm at this time frame.

 

Dont agree with the GFS either. The link i posted above shows a trough going through South Korea,i still believe the Euro is right just to fast

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9 minutes ago, 1234snow said:

 


NAVGEM also lost our main storm to suppression.

I think the GFS is a little lost right now. The Euro, CMC, GEFS AND GEPS have been more consistent with a storm at this time frame.

 

I agree the NAVGEM is suppressed though it was an improvement for us between 6z and 12z, so I'd say it will come back at 18z lessening on the suppression. I'm also concerned about getting enough cold air into the valley at all levels but it's to early to be concerned about that. As for the GFS I have no idea whats with it.

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I was wrong with the Euro,there was a system that went through Asia that should effect us around the time frame the Euro shows.On vacation and missed this.But this is the system the Euro shows will effect us around the 28-29th,should be a SW system.

 

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=ecmwf&region=wpac&pkg=z500a&runtime=2017122312&fh=-72

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I can say that most winters....we want the storm to our south and let it work back in the modeling.   I have been getting some last minute shopping done....Carvers Gap local stimulus package in effect.  I have been to all of the cities in the Tri-Cities today already.  Anyway, when I first started following winter storms as a hobby(I did not even look at summer wx a decade ago), tnweathernut and stovepipe would always talk about ensembles.  I only looked at operational runs.  What I would learn from their discussions is that when the operationals were all over the place...the ensembles generally held some nice clues.  Now, there are times operational runs lead the way...especially closer to the event.  We are getting close to that time frame now for the 28-29 event...trends matter.  I don't like the suppression being show by the GFS, but its bias is to be to progressive.  The Euro likes to back north and west....I am not sure it can go much more.  So, another thing I learned from JB is that systems like to ride the frontal boundary.  Find that boundary and there is your storm.  For weeks it seems...the frontal boundary has been over our area.  I think we will see multiple shots, like Powell said, for the forum area.  Here is the 12z GEFS ensemble.  

IMG_1250.thumb.PNG.a8f86dcb5283d31a184f2ef68baa3582.PNG

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Just look at the Pacific NW on the GFS. How it handles the PNA effects everything down stream. The last two runs have actually tended towards a -PNA from a positive. If it's a nice +PNA it digs a trough to the east and turns the flow SW here. With the current look there's no tall PNA ridge, that causes the flow to be flat and it just keeps the storm suppressed and scoots it out to sea.

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GFS continues its bounce around. It's literally shown every possible solution over the past 36 hours, so at least one is bound to be correct. This run at least brought back precip. Not a lot of it and it comes with a big ole warm nose thumb to our eye. 

 

The Canadian is a monster winter storm for a good portion of the forum. 

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