What good sized city in the Midwest has this?

[Jeff6742]

Hi. I am new to this website, Americanwx, and I am new to forums. So please go easy on me. I usually get yelled at by a lot of people because I didn't do something correct. I bet you people here are nice, from what I've heard.

 

Anyways, on to the question I have been wanting to ask a professional for months.

 

Question: What good sized city in the Midwest has EXTREMELY muggy summers that are EXTREMELY muggy day and night, everyday of the summer? If not everyday, than mostly everyday?

And also, has A TON AND A LOT of severe thunderstorms during the summer?

 

 

Answer my question as best as you can. Thank you so much :-)

[Hoosier]

Not really the easiest question to answer.  Obviously the farther south you go in the Midwest, the less often you will get cool air intrusions.  Some summers are more muggy than others.  Sometimes you may have the muggy weather without a lot of severe weather. 

 

I guess I would pick St. Louis.

[A-L-E-K]

depends on how fast and loose you want to play with the boundaries of midwest

 

stl is a good answer

[Stebo]

St Louis, Evansville or Paducah would probably be good answers. Depends what you consider a good sized city though too.

[Geos]

I would side with St. Louis as being #1 tool. Ohio River Valley cities for sure. Quad Cities fits the bill pretty much too.

[Chicago Storm]

STL or KC.

[Powerball]

It depends on what you consider a good sized city and the midwest.

Definitely STL and KC for sure. However, Tulsa and OKC may fit your bill also.

[Chicago Storm]

It depends on what you consider a good sized city and the midwest.

Definitely STL and KC for sure. However, Tulsa and OKC may fit your bill also.

The latter two are not Midwest cities though.

[Stebo]

I would side more STL over KC if we are looking at all things equal, KC doesn't get as muggy as STL but both usually get really hot in the summer.

[Quincy]

Using the approximate geographical area of MO/KY/IN/IL/IA (not including upper Midwest, due to cooler temperatures and lower dew-points), I think Louisville wins by a narrow margin over Kansas City and St. Louis, which are arguably tied for close seconds. Typically states west of this area are classified as the Plains, while areas south are considered mid-South/South/Dixie.

 

Louisville, KY:

Population - 610,000

Avg. summer low - 67

Avg. July dew-point - 67

 

Kansas City, MO:

Population - 470,000

Avg. summer low - 65

Avg. July dew-point - 67

 

St. Louis, MO:

Population - 320,000

Avg. summer low - 65

Avg. July dew-point - 68

 

I gave Louisville #1 due to the larger population and higher overall low temperature in the summer (JJA). Although Kansas City has a larger population, their average summer low and average July dew-points are fractionally lower than St. Louis.

 

For the average summer low, I estimated the mean monthly low for June, July and August and took the average of those three. The average July dew-point is an estimate from the above graphic.

[Jonger]

St. Louis.

 

It has a bit of a midwest feel, but also a bit of a plains feel to it.

[Powerball]

The latter two are not Midwest cities though.

 

Which is why I said it depends on what you consider the Midwest.

 

Not saying they're right or wrong, but some people consider OK part of the Midwest. It's one of those places that overlap more than one region as far as its characteristics. 

[MichiganLion]

If I'm reading your question right, you want a "heat and humidity AND storms"  Seems like nobody thus far is talking about your "A TON AND A LOT" of severe thunderstorms qualifier.  

 

Factoring that in, I'd guess Kansas City becomes the #1.  Although honestly, it's not like they get severe storms on a near-daily basis either.  And they get occasional drought years with NO storms at all.

 

If you restrain "Midwest" to mean only Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Indiana --- frankly the answer to your question (again needing the heat and humidity AND storms) is "none."   Nothing fits.  Cincinnati and Evansville are the hottest and most humid in this "5-state Midwest", but certainly less so than either KC or St Louis.  And big storms are also fairly infrequent for Cincinnati or Evansville --- and less frequent vs. either KC or St Louis.

[Quincy]

If I'm reading your question right, you want a "heat and humidity AND storms"  Seems like nobody thus far is talking about your "A TON AND A LOT" of severe thunderstorms qualifier.  

 

Factoring that in, I'd guess Kansas City becomes the #1.  Although honestly, it's not like they get severe storms on a near-daily basis either.  And they get occasional drought years with NO storms at all.

 

If you restrain "Midwest" to mean only Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Indiana --- frankly the answer to your question (again needing the heat and humidity AND storms) is "none."   Nothing fits.  Cincinnati and Evansville are the hottest and most humid in this "5-state Midwest", but certainly less so than either KC or St Louis.  And big storms are also fairly infrequent for Cincinnati or Evansville --- and less frequent vs. either KC or St Louis.

I also missed the part of severe thunderstorms. That is probably enough to give Kansas City/St. Louis the edge over Louisville. As for the Midwest geographical area, opinions differ. The U.S. Census Bureau does not include Kentucky, but includes Kansas, Nebraska and the Dakotas. I saw an image somewhere that included poll results from "what states do you consider to be in the Midwest?" and Oklahoma was commonly selected. 

 

Anyway, here's a graphic with the average number of severe thunderstorm watches per year. Kansas City and St. Louis are neck and neck. The data (at least based on watches) suggests that Illinois, Indiana and Ohio are quite comparable to Missouri in terms of severe thunderstorms:

[Chicago Storm]

Which is why I said it depends on what you consider the Midwest.

Not saying they're right or wrong, but some people consider OK part of the Midwest. It's one of those places that overlap more than one region as far as its characteristics.

I've never met a person that considers any part of Oklahoma to be the Midwest, mostly because it isn't. Not even close.

[Quincy]

I've never met a person that considers any part of Oklahoma to be them Midwest, mostly because it isn't. Not even close.

It's a regional thing. I used to "assume" that Oklahoma was in the Midwest back in college. I also know a former colleague that refers to Oklahoma as a Midwest state. That's what you get from New Englanders, I guess.

[rolltide_130]

I've never met a person that considers any part of Oklahoma to be them Midwest, mostly because it isn't. Not even close.

 

I personally just group the entire belt from Texas to North Dakota into the Plains states. I dunno if that's an actual thing or not though.   ​

[Quincy]

I personally just group the entire belt from Texas to North Dakota into the Plains states. I dunno if that's an actual thing or not though.   ​

Not to derail this topic, but I made this graphic last fall. I think there is some overlap and room for interpretation:

[Hoosier]

I've never met a person that considers any part of Oklahoma to be them Midwest, mostly because it isn't. Not even close.

And even if it was, you run into a higher likelihood of the summer death ridge...bad for storm prospects.

[ClicheVortex2014]

I also missed the part of severe thunderstorms. That is probably enough to give Kansas City/St. Louis the edge over Louisville. As for the Midwest geographical area, opinions differ. The U.S. Census Bureau does not include Kentucky, but includes Kansas, Nebraska and the Dakotas. I saw an image somewhere that included poll results from "what states do you consider to be in the Midwest?" and Oklahoma was commonly selected. 

 

Anyway, here's a graphic with the average number of severe thunderstorm watches per year. Kansas City and St. Louis are neck and neck. The data (at least based on watches) suggests that Illinois, Indiana and Ohio are quite comparable to Missouri in terms of severe thunderstorms:

20ysvra.png

Here's another thing to look at for considering the severe storms aspect of the request. Obviously tornado alley sticks out as lots of watches... but one should also consider the length of severe seasons. Oklahoma has a relatively short severe season compared to the lower MW. 

 

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/online/rda/

 

OKC's season is March 21-July 9 = 110 days

 

Places in the lower MW/lower GL, such as SW OH/central and south half of Indiana/central Illinois/STL/west Missouri/east Kansas have a longer severe season; last week of March to last few days of August... which is around 154 days. However... I do have to add in... the OV and deep south do sometimes get some big severe events in the cool season, when most of the rest of the Midwest stays on the cold side. We had 3 squall events here in 2013-14, and 4 of the 7 total high risks in my area were in the cool season. Each one of them involved a squall and the threat for discrete supercells embedded and ahead of the line. 

 

OKC obviously has the most robust/intense severe season... but it's more short-lived. Considering severe weather, humidity and heat, I'd live in central OK. My second choice would be east Kansas/west Missouri. Third choice would be central Indiana or SW OH (especially Xenia if you like tornadoes ). Considering intensity AND longevity of the severe season, my top 3 choices are really close and I'd say any one of them is good enough. Each one has their own perks and it's hard to make a definitive justification of one over the other IMO.

 

THE CLIMATOLOGY, CONVECTIVE MODE, AND MESOSCALE ENVIRONMENT OF COOL SEASON SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS IN THE OHIO AND TENNESSEE VALLEYS, 1995-2006

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/publications/smith/coolohtn.pd

 

[JoMo]

I've never thought of Oklahoma as being in the midwest. I rarely think of myself as being in the midwest, being in far SW Missouri. We do the extremely hot and muggy day and night thing well in the summer but severe thunderstorms are few and far between in the summer. 

[ClicheVortex2014]

I've never thought of Oklahoma as being in the midwest. I rarely think of myself as being in the midwest, being in far SW Missouri. We do the extremely hot and muggy day and night thing well in the summer but severe thunderstorms are few and far between in the summer. 

I never thought of OK as the Midwest either. By the way, glad to see your town is recovering... that's one of the few vivid memories I have of 2011; watching it all happen on TWC. Stopped by in 2013, I was glad to see the progress relative to how I remembered it.

I wish I would've done something when it was needed. Hope all continues to go well and you don't become the next Xenia or Moore

[Gilbertfly]

Subforum was just itching for something to talk about...

STL makes the most sense in terms of heat and humidity on boring days...and enough action, or at least within driving distance, to scratch the severe itch when needed

[cyclone77]

I'd go with Joplin or Springfield Missouri, if they're considered MW.  Kind of on the border for MW, but close.  Lots of intense heat and humidity, especially later on in summer, and of course lots of severe.  

[hm8]

How are we past 20 posts in this thread

[Stebo]

How are we past 20 posts in this thread

Boring weather

[JoMo]

I never thought of OK as the Midwest either. By the way, glad to see your town is recovering... that's one of the few vivid memories I have of 2011; watching it all happen on TWC. Stopped by in 2013, I was glad to see the progress relative to how I remembered it.

I wish I would've done something when it was needed. Hope all continues to go well and you don't become the next Xenia or Moore

 

Thanks, there's been quite a bit of rebuilding and a few missteps along the way. Eagerly awaiting a citizen petitioned city financial audit that is set to be released next week that might be interesting. The neighborhood I've taken pictures of that was destroyed and empty has been about 98-99% rebuilt. There's an empty lot here and there but it has filled in nicely. Still miss the trees though.

[OKwx2K4]

Thanks, there's been quite a bit of rebuilding and a few missteps along the way. Eagerly awaiting a citizen petitioned city financial audit that is set to be released next week that might be interesting. The neighborhood I've taken pictures of that was destroyed and empty has been about 98-99% rebuilt. There's an empty lot here and there but it has filled in nicely. Still miss the trees though.

What you guys up there went through is terrible. Family I have in Moore and surrounding areas went through the same/ similar things as well. Some went have went through it twice. Glad to hear of the great recovery that you folks have had up there as well.

I have never considered my state to be a midwest state. It has so many different geographic and meterological characteristics that it's really hard to classify it correctly sometimes. Northwest is a basically a desert and southeast is forested rainy and humid. However Tulsa, OKC, or even Ft. Smith, Arkansas would definitely give you all you want of heat, humidity, storms, etc.

[nwohweather]

Using the approximate geographical area of MO/KY/IN/IL/IA (not including upper Midwest, due to cooler temperatures and lower dew-points), I think Louisville wins by a narrow margin over Kansas City and St. Louis, which are arguably tied for close seconds. Typically states west of this area are classified as the Plains, while areas south are considered mid-South/South/Dixie.

Louisville, KY:

Population - 610,000

Avg. summer low - 67

Avg. July dew-point - 67

Kansas City, MO:

Population - 470,000

Avg. summer low - 65

Avg. July dew-point - 67

St. Louis, MO:

Population - 320,000

Avg. summer low - 65

Avg. July dew-point - 68

I gave Louisville #1 due to the larger population and higher overall low temperature in the summer (JJA). Although Kansas City has a larger population, their average summer low and average July dew-points are fractionally lower than St. Louis.

dew-point_climo.gif

For the average summer low, I estimated the mean monthly low for June, July and August and took the average of those three. The average July dew-point is an estimate from the above graphic.

Louisville is not even close to as big as St Louis. Maybe the city pop itself is bigger but the metro is double the size of Louisville

[Geos]

This has turned into quite the topic. I can tell most; if not all of us, are bored about now!

 

Since I like maps, I had to make one too. Had some fun making it.

It's interesting how people geographically define a region of our country. To break my map down, I put a red border around the six main region of the country. With those regions I followed state lines, but for more specific areas I didn't as you can tell. Got some areas that overlap like the along the Gulf Coast and the Central Plains and Central Mississippi Valley.

 

Given my background I look at natural features that define an area.