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Winter 2014-15 Med/Long Range Discussion Part 2


Hoosier

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Thanks. I'm hoping we get at least one legitimate threat pans out (we'll define that as over 4" of snow somewhere in the subforum other than the UP or northern WI...no offense to our posters there, but that wouldn't do any good to the rest of us and would probably serve to just annoy people, although I do hope everyone gets snow at some point) so I don't appear too crazy lol. The 12z GFS and 0z Euro at least showed something around the 20th, but I'm sure that will come and go from the models for another few days.

12z GGEM shows it too but a little farther south which at this point is a good place for it. At least we got a storm to keep an eye on now.

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I dunno if I agree with Alek on the snow part....but either way these aren't really arctic intrusions on the docket for the next week as modeled now....

 

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The extended certainly looks to get more active with seasonable temps in our region. Arctic cold? Nope. But its not necessarily needed. No guarentees but its better than boring and cold. And at the end of the day, all most care about is snow, so whatever pattern produces it is good enough.

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The 12z Euro would be the worst case scenario with no northern stream involvement with the mid-week system next week or the system around the 20th. The ensembles look a bit cooler and several of them (probably 10-15, it's hard to tell for sure on the spaghetti plots) close off a sub 546dm 500mb low over the Ohio Valley around 240 hours...which would probably be ok for some of us.

 

The 12z GFS and Canadian appeared to almost show a poor man's omega block over the Rockies/Plains in the day 9-10 timeframe and hence looked a little more interesting with the possible system around day 10, while the Euro just has a large ridge over the Rockies and a polar jet displaced well to the north. So, it's 10 days out and obviously a mess.

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Not that this solution should be taken anymore seriously than the 12z Euro, but just to prove that I'm not insane in thinking we should at least watch around the 20th. It would probably be better if the shortwave that goes by ahead of this system brings in just a little more cooler air, but this is workable. post-525-0-84191400-1418281631_thumb.gif

 

 

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OHweather's and Alek's posts are a perfect example of how 3 day or 7 day means (or any other length of time) can be misleading.  Day 10 Euro implies a nice storm but it hardly shows up on the ECMWF 7-10 day height anomalies because of the relatively high heights preceding it.

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OHweather's and Alek's posts are a perfect example of how 3 day or 7 day means (or any other length of time) can be misleading.  Day 10 Euro implies a nice storm but it hardly shows up on the ECMWF 7-10 day height anomalies because of the relatively high heights preceding it.

 

 

hot tip: punt the 20th event

 

it's going to scoot harmlessly along the gulf states and ots

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I wouldn't shock me if the 20th system slows a day or so....models will be playing catch up a bit....hot mess in the pacific...

 

post-5865-0-95770800-1418319981_thumb.gi

 

I don't envision any type of cutter given the setup....but given the pac jet laxing and buckling as it is I don't see a total swing and miss here...whether or not there is enough cold air to work with will come down to timing as I alluded to in the first line

 

signs of a weak STJ involvement would also lead me to believe a coastal transfer type scenario would be in play with the pull and tug between the weak buckling and weak jet involvement....not too mention most models leaning on some form of closed-off ness

 

post-5865-0-71559600-1418319991_thumb.pn

 

I'm not arguing with or against anyone....just sharing my thoughts...

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Pretty good signal on the 12z Euro ensembles for the 12/20-21 system. Typical spread at this range, but definitely enough "hits". After that, pattern gets potentially sexy. Though, it's a bit of change from the 0z ensembles (west coast ridging moved a bit further west this run).

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Pretty good signal on the 12z Euro ensembles for the 12/20-21 system. Typical spread at this range, but definitely enough "hits". After that, pattern gets potentially sexy. Though, it's a bit of change from the 0z ensembles (west coast ridging moved a bit further west this run).

I like where the ridge sets up later on this run, much better position for big systems. Your panhandle hook type systems, which is something we haven't had in quite a while.

 

Of course this is reading deeply into the ensembles but at least for once there is a positive signal there.

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I like where the ridge sets up later on this run, much better position for big systems. Your panhandle hook type systems, which is something we haven't had in quite a while.

 

Of course this is reading deeply into the ensembles but at least for once there is a positive signal there.

Do you (or anyone) remember how many of last years snowstorms were actually panhandle hooks? Im sure the winter runs together as one big blur of historic snow for some, and I can remember the sensible weather details like yesterday, but I rarely remember what kind of storms they actually were if they arent clippers.

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Nice to see cold weather pattern is progressing in the right direction in the models/ensembles.  Pacific/GOA is looking better.  :)

Amen to that. This boring stretch is almost over I think, big storm or not. We live in the Great Lakes. Many possible ways to get snow.  Do not get me wrong I would love a big snowstorm, but there is months to worry about that. RIght now, lets just work on a White Christmas. When I was younger I always viewed winter as just hoping to get a White Christmas then worrying about the big storms after New years. I think a part of that mindset is its so busy during the Christmas season, theres so much going on...that there isnt the time to dedicate to storms like there is in Jan or Feb. Maybe another part is because during my teen years in the '90s, January was what it was all about....we rarely had a snowy December (then 2000 hit and we have had many snowy Decembers since). But at this point I am just thrilled to see not only a colder patter settle in in the longrange but also an unsettled one. there will surely be haves and have nots by New Years...just have to hope we are a have lol

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Do you (or anyone) remember how many of last years snowstorms were actually panhandle hooks? Im sure the winter runs together as one big blur of historic snow for some, and I can remember the sensible weather details like yesterday, but I rarely remember what kind of storms they actually were if they arent clippers.

 

3/12/14 was close. 

 

2/5/14 was a hybrid hooker/gulf low kerfuffle.

 

2/1/14 I guess was sort of a hooker, but extremely strung out with a positive-tilt trough.

 

12/13/13 and 1/1/14 were sort of/kind of hookers also (1/1/14 more of hybrid gulf low as well).

 

Last season was full of "mutant" storms, the main theme being that none of them were particularly wound-up/moist storms.

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Do you (or anyone) remember how many of last years snowstorms were actually panhandle hooks? Im sure the winter runs together as one big blur of historic snow for some, and I can remember the sensible weather details like yesterday, but I rarely remember what kind of storms they actually were if they arent clippers.

 

WPC has storm summaries here (link is for 2014, but you can get prior years at the bottom): http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/winter_storm_summaries/winter_storm_summaries.shtml

 

On another note, today's Euro weeklies look good for weeks 3 and 4...a continuation of the regular Euro ensembles at the end of their run.

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WPC has storm summaries here (link is for 2014, but you can get prior years at the bottom): http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/winter_storm_summaries/winter_storm_summaries.shtml

 

On another note, today's Euro weeklies look good for weeks 3 and 4...a continuation of the regular Euro ensembles at the end of their run.

 

Cool link!  Thanks CW

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Amen to that. This boring stretch is almost over I think, big storm or not. We live in the Great Lakes. Many possible ways to get snow.  Do not get me wrong I would love a big snowstorm, but there is months to worry about that. RIght now, lets just work on a White Christmas. When I was younger I always viewed winter as just hoping to get a White Christmas then worrying about the big storms after New years. I think a part of that mindset is its so busy during the Christmas season, theres so much going on...that there isnt the time to dedicate to storms like there is in Jan or Feb. Maybe another part is because during my teen years in the '90s, January was what it was all about....we rarely had a snowy December (then 2000 hit and we have had many snowy Decembers since). But at this point I am just thrilled to see not only a colder patter settle in in the longrange but also an unsettled one. there will surely be haves and have nots by New Years...just have to hope we are a have lol

While I love big storms at this point I would much rather just get into a prolonged cold and snowy pattern. I love a deep snow pack with lots of refresher systems. I just love seeing snow falling from the sky. I know many here hate the nickel and dime stuff but I'm sure more like you. I'll take them anytime .. well except July :P I know a big storm will eventually come as they normally do.

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While I love big storms at this point I would much rather just get into a prolonged cold and snowy pattern. I love a deep snow pack with lots of refresher systems. I just love seeing snow falling from the sky. I know many here hate the nickel and dime stuff but I'm sure more like you. I'll take them anytime .. well except July :P I know a big storm will eventually come as they normally do.

 

I agree. The clippers tend to lock in the cold. Plus, I get lots of lake enhancement from them! :)

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