NNE Winter Thread

[CoastalWx]

Ludlow is a sneaky snow retention town. They usually have some of the higher depths in eastern VT because they upslope on SE flow during the larger QPF events...won't get anything on west or NW flow, but do well in the larger scale regional events. Nice classic New England town too.

 

Interesting. I didn't know that.  I guess the terrain west of them into NY state squeezes all the moisture out on NW winds.

[powderfreak]

Interesting. I didn't know that. I guess the terrain west of them into NY state squeezes all the moisture out on NW winds.

Most of eastern VT really does hold snow well, like Allenson or klm's areas. We don't talk about it much on here because us more vocal posters seem to be in the BTV-MPV corridor, where the low levels are more prone to warmer air intrusion. But eastern VT holds snow just as well, and usually have depths similar to a lot of NH/ME.

Like right now, one of the highest town depths in the state this morning was Pomfret near Ludlow with 16"...same depth as 2,300ft at Coles Pond in the NE Kingdom. That area of Orange and Windsor counties can really lock it in.

[J.Spin]

Event totals: 0.9” Snow/0.28" L.E.

 

We picked up an additional 0.7" of dense snow today at the house, and I also stopped by Bolton Valley on the way home to make a few turns and check out the snow on the mountain.  There was a good 3-4" of new snow with ample density that really helped cover the old base.  There was also wind scouring in a few spots, but where the snow was down it made for some very nice turns on low and moderate angle terrain.

 

Details from the 5:00 P.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 0.7 inches

New Liquid: 0.15 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 4.7

Snow Density: 21.4% H2O

Temperature: 31.5 F

Sky: Light Snow (1-2 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 7.0"

[Nittany88]

Hearing of some wicked freezing drizzle along the I-89 corridor near Waterbury/Bolton Flats. Multiple accidents and I-89 southbound closed.

 

If anything every happens, its always Bolton Flats or French Hill.

[powderfreak]

Hearing of some wicked freezing drizzle along the I-89 corridor near Waterbury/Bolton Flats. Multiple accidents and I-89 southbound closed.

 

If anything every happens, its always Bolton Flats or French Hill.

 

What's interesting this morning, is that I found no trace of icing or crust or anything other than snowfall down at my place in town.

 

Just a dense 1.8" of snow over about a 12-hour period.  Feels like sand where you walk on it and you have to sort of dig for the bottom, haha... has a very synoptic SWFE type density to it where you get 1.8" on 0.25" liquid or something.

 

 

Meanwhile, up at the mountain there's 1.0" of snow during the same time frame, but a bit of a crust layer in there and there's some ice on the railings and things like that.  Nothing too bad by any means, but seems as though in town we were able to stay flakes while up here there was some freezing drizzle mixed in and cut down on accums.  Just getting some light snow grains now.

[Hitman]

No problem and it is under alpinereplay or trace snow. Anyway the Euro is very interesting with no longer a single 960 bomb over MI. We do begin with the cutter but then a secondary low bombs to 975 mb by Thu night and becomes centered over where VT/NH/MA meet. the cold air is wrapped all the way around to the southwestern side of the storm with the Greens, Whites, and Dacks getting a solid dose of snow as the system lifts north on Christmas morning.

Thanks.

Bringing out all the voodoo dolls for this one.

[OceanStWx]

See to me, you guys are known for the best snow. It's just natural for someone in the BOS area to gravitate to ski areas that are closer.

 

That's why I love Sugarloaf. Somebody from BOS needs to make a commitment to get up there for the weekend.

[j24vt]

1.3" this morning when I left the house.  Drove home last night from Burlington just before 89 turned into a parking lot.  Pingers freezing to the road turned it into a skating rink. 

[Nittany88]

What's interesting this morning, is that I found no trace of icing or crust or anything other than snowfall down at my place in town.

 

Just a dense 1.8" of snow over about a 12-hour period.  Feels like sand where you walk on it and you have to sort of dig for the bottom, haha... has a very synoptic SWFE type density to it where you get 1.8" on 0.25" liquid or something.

 

Dec19.JPG

 

Meanwhile, up at the mountain there's 1.0" of snow during the same time frame, but a bit of a crust layer in there and there's some ice on the railings and things like that.  Nothing too bad by any means, but seems as though in town we were able to stay flakes while up here there was some freezing drizzle mixed in and cut down on accums.  Just getting some light snow grains now.

Yeah weirdly we stayed light flurries at BTV too. In between here and you though, certainly not! Saw a picture from the area last night and it was just smooth glare ice across the whole road.

[Hitman]

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/12/could-a-computer-think-up-as-many-unique-snowflakes-as-nature/383901/

[N. OF PIKE]

Driving through beautiful Danville ,VT. Steady light snow and roads are a bit covered. As i went up in higher elevations on 2 , i noticed what a beautiful snowy area this is.

[N. OF PIKE]

That's why I love Sugarloaf. Somebody from BOS needs to make a commitment to get up there for the weekend.

Will do

[mreaves]

Driving through beautiful Danville ,VT. Steady light snow and roads are a bit covered. As i went up in higher elevations on 2 , i noticed what a beautiful snowy area this is.

Look to the east and you get a great view of the Whites, then you descend to the snowhole that is St. Johnsbury.

[J.Spin]

Event totals: 1.0” Snow/0.32" L.E.

 

Hearing of some wicked freezing drizzle along the I-89 corridor near Waterbury/Bolton Flats. Multiple accidents and I-89 southbound closed.

 

If anything every happens, it's always Bolton Flats or French Hill.

 

We got in on a bit of that freezing drizzle at our place along the Bolton/Waterbury line too, as the 40% H2O content in this morning's core off the snowboard would attest (details below).  That freezing drizzle was incredibly spotty, and I can pass along some very interesting observations to that effect based on my trip up to Bolton Valley for some ski touring this morning.  At the base of the Bolton Valley Access Road, in roughly the 300' – 700' elevation range, the trees don't really have any sort of accumulations on them; presumably down at these elevations it was warm enough to melt everything off.  From around 700' up to 1,200' along the road, the trees actually have a coating of fluffy snow.  Then suddenly at around 1,200' near the bottom of that big S-curve in the road, the trees all have a coating of ice on them.  This was the situation I found at the base of the Timberline area at 1,500', and there's an ice crust on the snow there as well.  This left me pretty skeptical with regard to the quality of turns I'd be able to get, but the crust was thin enough to be breakable, so I figured I'd head out for the tour anyway.  There was ice on the trees as I headed up the skin track, and then remarkably at around 1,800', it quickly switches from ice to rime.  The trees all become white, and the crust atop the snow dissipates.  As I headed along the skin track, I was pushing my measurement pole down into as much as 10" of that dense snow.  It didn’t look especially drifted or anything, so I was really curious as to how I wasn't running into the old base at a shallower depth.  The snow definitely wasn't as deep in areas that had been hit by the wind, but I found these areas with such deep snow quite surprising.  There was little if any ice until I approached the Timberline Mid Station at ~2,250', and then the snow surface started to get crusty again.  That crustiness was around up to where I finally stopped my ascent in the 2,300' – 2,400' elevation range.  I started skiing on trail, and found the snow highly variable – you could get good snow on one side of the trail, but much of the rest had crust.  Sheltered areas seemed to have missed the crust, so I cut into the trees and really hit pay dirt on Lost Boyz – the entirety of the glade was covered with 8" of that dense snow without crust, and it skied beautifully.  Anyway, there is plenty of good snow out there at Bolton Valley right now, you just want to choose wisely and avoid any areas with crust.

 

I can tell you one thing – that dense snow from the cutoff low pressure system last week is going to be paying us dividends for a long time.  I was able to go over ledgy areas today that I would never expect to be so well covered with this amount of snow, but that storm put down such a shellacking of dense material that it covered underlying objects really well.

 

Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 0.1 inches

New Liquid: 0.04 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 2.5

Snow Density: 40.0% H2O

Temperature: 26.1 F

Sky: Flurries

Snow at the stake: 7.0"

 

I also updated the snowfall totals from this storm for the Vermont ski areas is below.  The higher totals continue to be up in the northern part of the state:

 

Jay Peak: 8”

Smuggler’s Notch: 5”

Stowe: 5”

Bolton Valley: 5”

Mad River Glen: 3”

Sugarbush: 4”

Pico: 3”

Killington: 3”

Okemo: T”

Bromley: 2”

Stratton: 1”

Mount Snow: 2”

[SR Airglow]

Some pretty spectacular photos coming out of the NNE summits today, here's an incredible one from Whiteface.

[powderfreak]

Event totals: 1.0” Snow/0.32" L.E.

 

 

We got in on a bit of that freezing drizzle at our place along the Bolton/Waterbury line too, as the 40% H2O content in this morning's core off the snowboard would attest (details below).  That freezing drizzle was incredibly spotty, and I can pass along some very interesting observations to that effect based on my trip up to Bolton Valley for some ski touring this morning.  At the base of the Bolton Valley Access Road, in roughly the 300' – 700' elevation range, the trees don't really have any sort of accumulations on them; presumably down at these elevations it was warm enough to melt everything off.  From around 700' up to 1,200' along the road, the trees actually have a coating of fluffy snow.  Then suddenly at around 1,200' near the bottom of that big S-curve in the road, the trees all have a coating of ice on them.  This was the situation I found at the base of the Timberline area at 1,500', and there's an ice crust on the snow there as well.  This left me pretty skeptical with regard to the quality of turns I'd be able to get, but the crust was thin enough to be breakable, so I figured I'd head out for the tour anyway.  There was ice on the trees as I headed up the skin track, and then remarkably at around 1,800', it quickly switches from ice to rime.  The trees all become white, and the crust atop the snow dissipates.  As I headed along the skin track, I was pushing my measurement pole down into as much as 10" of that dense snow.  It didn’t look especially drifted or anything, so I was really curious as to how I wasn't running into the old base at a shallower depth.  The snow definitely wasn't as deep in areas that had been hit by the wind, but I found these areas with such deep snow quite surprising.  There was little if any ice until I approached the Timberline Mid Station at ~2,250', and then the snow surface started to get crusty again.  That crustiness was around up to where I finally stopped my ascent in the 2,300' – 2,400' elevation range.  I started skiing on trail, and found the snow highly variable – you could get good snow on one side of the trail, but much of the rest had crust.  Sheltered areas seemed to have missed the crust, so I cut into the trees and really hit pay dirt on Lost Boyz – the entirety of the glade was covered with 8" of that dense snow without crust, and it skied beautifully.  Anyway, there is plenty of good snow out there at Bolton Valley right now, you just want to choose wisely and avoid any areas with crust.

 

I can tell you one thing – that dense snow from the cutoff low pressure system last week is going to be paying us dividends for a long time.  I was able to go over ledgy areas today that I would never expect to be so well covered with this amount of snow, but that storm put down such a shellacking of dense material that it covered underlying objects really well.

 

J.Spin...sounds similar to over here, except I can tell you the upper elevations of Mansfield got a pretty serious crust last night, to the point that it was unbreakable in spots.  But it varied greatly around the mountain, from a skim zipper crust in spots, especially down low that was easily manageable, to a stout unbreakable crust in spots that almost seemed to get wind-loaded freezing mist or something.  Its hard to describe, but it was like somewhere between rime and ice and areas exposed to the wind seemed to pile up more of the ice, or maybe just the snow was scoured from there. 

 

The groomed terrain was great, as that dense snow and crust was easily tilled out by the groomers and gave a really nice, almost sandy texture to the snow.  The 1" we got after 2-3pm yesterday at the mountain though was not really snow, but more of a "white material" haha.  Somewhere along the lines of graupel, snow grains, maybe some flakes, all put together by some freezing drizzle.  I ended up using a credit card to scrape the snow board clean up there, haha.  Essentially there's like 5" of dense snow up there covered in a sheen...and lots of railroad tracks from skiers who broke through the crust but then had difficulty turning after that, ha.  The woods and especially under the evergreens was quite nice, as the trees seemed to capture the freezing mist before it hit the surface.

 

Continuing the weirdness though... I found another 0.4" on the board when I got home (I didn't see any snow falling at the mountain today), so I have no idea where that came from, for a 24-hr total of 2.2" at home between 3pm-3pm.  I didn't see anything on radar last night or this morning, but somehow, we've picked up just over 2" of baking powder that's more dense than it looks.  It actually looks more wintery down here today than it did up at the base of the mountain, as all the trees in town have been re-whitened.

 

[Ginx snewx]

J.Spin...sounds similar to over here, except I can tell you the upper elevations of Mansfield got a pretty serious crust last night, to the point that it was unbreakable in spots.  But it varied greatly around the mountain, from a skim zipper crust in spots, especially down low that was easily manageable, to a stout unbreakable crust in spots that almost seemed to get wind-loaded freezing mist or something.  Its hard to describe, but it was like somewhere between rime and ice and areas exposed to the wind seemed to pile up more of the ice, or maybe just the snow was scoured from there. 

 

The groomed terrain was great, as that dense snow and crust was easily tilled out by the groomers and gave a really nice, almost sandy texture to the snow.  The 1" we got after 2-3pm yesterday at the mountain though was not really snow, but more of a "white material" haha.  Somewhere along the lines of graupel, snow grains, maybe some flakes, all put together by some freezing drizzle.  I ended up using a credit card to scrape the snow board clean up there, haha.  Essentially there's like 5" of dense snow up there covered in a sheen...and lots of railroad tracks from skiers who broke through the crust but then had difficulty turning after that, ha.  The woods and especially under the evergreens was quite nice, as the trees seemed to capture the freezing mist before it hit the surface.

 

Continuing the weirdness though... I found another 0.4" on the board when I got home (I didn't see any snow falling at the mountain today), so I have no idea where that came from, for a 24-hr total of 2.2" at home between 3pm-3pm.  I didn't see anything on radar last night or this morning, but somehow, we've picked up just over 2" of baking powder that's more dense than it looks.  It actually looks more wintery down here today than it did up at the base of the mountain, as all the trees in town have been re-whitened.

 

unnamed.jpg

you suck lol

[MaineJayhawk]

I was hoping to get in on the undercast action at Mt Moosilauke today, but it was not to be. The summit was fully in the clouds, though just a couple hundred feet lower where there are no viewpoints it was bluebird skies. Breaking trail through 8" of snow for a couple miles was a treat though

[powderfreak]

Pure winter Jayhawk... doesn't get any more wintery than that.  One thing I've loved lately is the rime.  Everything is plastered white..some spots in the higher elevations now look like someone stuck a snowmaking gun under it, but its au natural.

[Ginx snewx]

Wow Eric

[PivotPoint]

Not to downer the mood here, but can anyone give some realistic expecatations to what 2-3" of rain will do to the snowpack for Stowe, Jay, etc?

I'm not well versed in rain's melting potential. I'm legitimately curious/worried that the qpf being spit out by some the models could literally melt all the snow off trail.

Seriously, is that possible? Best guesses are good too.

[Ginx snewx]

Not to downer the mood here, but can anyone give some realistic expecatations to what 2-3" of rain will do to the snowpack for Stowe, Jay, etc?

I'm not well versed in rain's melting potential. I'm legitimately curious/worried that the qpf being spit out by some the models could literally melt all the snow off trail.

Seriously, is that possible? Best guesses are good too.

Not even close to happening, it will be fine by Christmas afternoon, Mt ops are really good and there is a ton of snow. that will just get absorbed.

[powderfreak]

Not to downer the mood here, but can anyone give some realistic expecatations to what 2-3" of rain will do to the snowpack for Stowe, Jay, etc?

I'm not well versed in rain's melting potential. I'm legitimately curious/worried that the qpf being spit out by some the models could literally melt all the snow off trail.

Seriously, is that possible? Best guesses are good too.

 

It may not be pleasant, but it won't do anything these ski areas haven't dealt with before during the holiday week.  All the snowmaking trails at the resorts have at least been hit once with man-made, and all that snow isn't melting anytime soon.  Natural snow trails may take a bit of a hit, but the base is pretty substantial in NNE.  The ski resorts know what to do, multiple grooms, dust-and-run snowmaking programs...they can get conditions back nicely in a couple days on a large portion of a mountain.  Its like a 2-minute drill for ski resorts.

[LongIslandWx14]

It may not be pleasant, but it won't do anything these ski areas haven't dealt with before during the holiday week. All the snowmaking trails at the resorts have at least been hit once with man-made, and all that snow isn't melting anytime soon. Natural snow trails may take a bit of a hit, but the base is pretty substantial in NNE. The ski resorts know what to do, multiple grooms, dust-and-run snowmaking programs...they can get conditions back nicely in a couple days on a large portion of a mountain. Its like a 2-minute drill for ski resorts.

Looks like temps near 50 with high dews and heavy rain with little cold behind the storm flowed by more rain this could be the worst Xmas skiing in years especially compared to how good it was last weekend

[SR Airglow]

Looks like temps near 50 with high dews and heavy rain with little cold behind the storm flowed by more rain this could be the worst Xmas skiing in years especially compared to how good it was last weekend

I wouldn't say rain is a sure thing for the 27th/28th event.

Also, you don't need real cold for snowmaking, just need to be sub 28f which we'll see in the mountains.

Also, I don't know if you realize this, but PF works for Stowe and has for quite a while now, so I'd trust him on what he's got to say re recovery and conditions.

[Tolland Death Band]

I was hoping to get in on the undercast action at Mt Moosilauke today, but it was not to be. The summit was fully in the clouds, though just a couple hundred feet lower where there are no viewpoints it was bluebird skies. Breaking trail through 8" of snow for a couple miles was a treat though

That third pic is amazing. Ghostly landscape, even looks fairly windless. Having been on Moosilauke in summer I can only imagine how awesome that must be in winter.

[MaineJayhawk]

That third pic is amazing. Ghostly landscape, even looks fairly windless. Having been on Moosilauke in summer I can only imagine how awesome that must be in winter.

Thx ... not windless though! I didn't measure it with my Kestrel (though it was in my bag), but it was blowing prob around 20mph on the lee side of the mountain. A couple I talked to who did summit said it was pretty windy there (but looking at MWN obs for noonish it wasn't exactly extreme conditions)

[Hitman]

I'm still hoping for the best, but looking into alternatives to skiing around xmas.

[alex]

On a lighter note... I finally installed a camera at my new place in Bretton Woods. I use that primarily as an investment so I don't spend much time there but damn... did not realize BW gets so much upslope? There's been measurable there every single night this week... including tonight, which i found surprising

[Ginx snewx]

On a lighter note... I finally installed a camera at my new place in Bretton Woods. I use that primarily as an investment so I don't spend much time there but damn... did not realize BW gets so much upslope? There's been measurable there every single night this week... including tonight, which i found surprising

Alex I believe we told you so,lol