Baroclinic Zone Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 all exterior walls collapsed is an expect mid-range EF3...all walls collapsed is a low EF4...it's tough to say from the pic if there is any interior walls left standing. Well there ya go. EF3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 List the amount of confirmed EF4/F4's that have hit New England. I believe its 1, maybe 2. As to damage assesments, you aren't qualified, and the mets here who are are even hesitant to say how strong it got. Saying it was likely an EF4 is just Hamden, Great Barrington, Worcester, Windsor Locks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Don't use facts here. The others confirmed it was Ef2 or Ef3. C'mon. Why can't we just have a discussion about this? It's OK if people have different opinions Re: the damage, if they support their opinions with analysis. BIrving had the wind speeds wrong, but his assessment of the range of damage seemed about right to me. It is healthy to analyze damage with skepticism. Otherwise, everything would always get an EF4 rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Hamden, Great Barrington, Worcester, Windsor Locks I was going to wait a bit, let him/her dig a little depper hole and then pull those out lol.. Anyway..an amazingly destructive day yesterday. How wide would you say the path was thru Monson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Ryan just posted that he saw ef3/possible low end Ef4 damage in Monson. He was there. Maybe you and the 16 yr old should be asking him I personally did not. I saw widespread EF2/low end EF3 damage. There were areas hardest it so it's possible there was high end EF3/low end EF4 given the amount of time this thing was producing EF2/EF3 damage. Many, many miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Hamden, Great Barrington, Worcester, Windsor Locks You seem to be the only met who actually saw the worst of the worst and your language seems guarded. I only take issue with the use of the word likely. 4 EF/F4's over a large amount of years says urge caution in predictions. Edit, I guess you personally didn't see it. Its all speculation, and this isn't the thread for this as was pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 argh.....EF-3 can still cause structure collapses, though? Is this all about the over-estimation of winds and damage...I guess that was the point I was trying to make. yeah an EF3 can collapse all exterior walls of a well-constructed dwelling...however the expected damage from a low-end EF4 is all walls (including interior) collapsed. A wiped clean foundation is 200mph...EF4/EF5 boundary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Helpful reference for folks: http://www.wunderground.com/resources/severe/fujita_scale.asp But keep in mind that destruction varies according to building quality, materials, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I really can't believe the footage from the choppers. The damage goes for miles. Does anyone have preliminary length of time on the ground, distance and width info? This looks way worse than I imagined last night based on first reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 C'mon. Why can't we just have a discussion about this? It's OK if people have different opinions Re: the damage, if they support their opinions with analysis. BIrving had the wind speeds wrong, but his assessment of the range of damage seemed about right to me. It is healthy to analyze damage with skepticism. Otherwise, everything would always get an EF4 rating. I think all of us can say there was EF3 damage. Whether there were isolated pockets of EF4 damage is unclear. The worst areas I couldn't get to so I don't know. There were some houses completely destroyed but it was dark and difficult to ascertain how well constructed. As I mentioned one house I saw on Washington ST in Monson was flattened and moved off its foundation. All walls collapsed including interior walls. That would be EF4 damage however I think the reason it was destroyed was more because of the poorly constructed garage next door that completely came off its foundation and was moved nearly 50 feet into the house. Had that garage not been there I don't think that house would have been destroyed so completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 You seem to be the only met who actually saw the worst of the worst and your language seems guarded. I only take issue with the use of the word likely. 4 EF/F4's over a large amount of years says urge caution in predictions. Edit, I guess you personally didn't see it. Its all speculation, and this isn't the thread for this as was pointed out. I didn't say likely I said "it is possible there were isolated areas of high end EF3/low end EF4" I think that's a reasonable statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I think all of us can say there was EF3 damage. Whether there were isolated pockets of EF4 damage is unclear. The worst areas I couldn't get to so I don't know. There were some houses completely destroyed but it was dark and difficult to ascertain how well constructed. As I mentioned one house I saw on Washington ST in Monson was flattened and moved off its foundation. All walls collapsed including interior walls. That would be EF4 damage however I think the reason it was destroyed was more because of the poorly constructed garage next door that completely came off its foundation and was moved nearly 50 feet into the house. Had that garage not been there I don't think that house would have been destroyed so completely. Could you get an estimate how wide the path was when it went thru Monson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Could you get an estimate how wide the path was when it went thru Monson? 1/3 or 1/2 mile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I didn't say likely I said "it is possible there were isolated areas of high end EF3/low end EF4" I think that's a reasonable statement CTBlizz said likely, which is what I originally commented on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 1/3 or 1/2 mile? Yeah that sounds just about like what i saw in Sturbridge.. Less than 1/2 mile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I think all of us can say there was EF3 damage. Whether there were isolated pockets of EF4 damage is unclear. The worst areas I couldn't get to so I don't know. There were some houses completely destroyed but it was dark and difficult to ascertain how well constructed. As I mentioned one house I saw on Washington ST in Monson was flattened and moved off its foundation. All walls collapsed including interior walls. That would be EF4 damage however I think the reason it was destroyed was more because of the poorly constructed garage next door that completely came off its foundation and was moved nearly 50 feet into the house. Had that garage not been there I don't think that house would have been destroyed so completely. Thanks for this detailed assessment. The truth is in these little details. You saw with your own eyes, so you would know best, assuming you are fluent in the EF scale (which I believe you are). What you describe seems consistent with what I've seen in photos. I would be astonished if it were rated less than EF3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 even in Joplin...you can see widespread EF3 to EF4 damage...with only small pockets of EF5 we'll have to see if there's some small pockets of EF4 somewhere in there. Pete says construction standards in MA are some of the best in the country..however...we don't know how old and/or how well constructed the specific houses we are looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 has anyone seen as significant damage to structures other than houses? That could give us a better idea of the wind speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 even in Joplin...you can see widespread EF3 to EF4 damage...with only small pockets of EF5 we'll have to see if there's some small pockets of EF4 somewhere in there. Pete says construction standards in MA are some of the best in the country..however...we don't know how old and/or how well constructed the specific houses we are looking at. In general the wood framed construction around here is very sturdy. Sometimes (especially in the SE) it can be tough to judge because building construction can be very shoddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 even in Joplin...you can see widespread EF3 to EF4 damage...with only small pockets of EF5 we'll have to see if there's some small pockets of EF4 somewhere in there. Pete says construction standards in MA are some of the best in the country..however...we don't know how old and/or how well constructed the specific houses we are looking at. I was in Monson for a couple hours yesterday and a lot of the houses which were destroyed definitely looked old. There were some on a hillside which looked to be 1800s, and a lot of early 1900s. Also, a lot of 2 family looking homes, tall and wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free_man Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I agree with your EF-scale opinion on the damage pics we're seeing, but Re: actual wind speed, I believe EF4 goes up to 200 mph, and over 200 mph is EF5. Fixed it, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 has anyone seen as significant damage to structures other than houses? That could give us a better idea of the wind speeds. Look at this video I took around 3:58 to 4:10 or so... the building was completely stripped bare of everything inside (but still standing) and that car was tossed and wrapped around the tree, completely pancaked. link again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 FYI, trees cannot be used to justify EF4 wind speeds...debarked trees occur in EF3 wind speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Look at this video I took around 3:58 to 4:10 or so... the building was completely stripped bare of everything inside (but still standing) and that car was tossed and wrapped around the tree, completely pancaked. link again.. Cool video. It definitely doesn't suggest EF4 to me, but it's good to see some firsthand video like this. I liked your footage of the Springfield tornado. I realized watching the footage how challenging it must be to chase in a fairly urban area like that-- with buildings in the way, traffic, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I thought this was the video/pictures/chase accounts thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmfm Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Just for history's sake, though I'd remind everyone you can get today's front pages (PDF) from http://www.newseum.o...sh/default.asp . Hartford Courant is particularly good. BTW, in my layman's opinion all the damage shots I've seen look like solid EF3, but really depends on some of those areas in Monson that haven't been well documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Just for history's sake, though I'd remind everyone you can get today's front pages (PDF) from http://www.newseum.o...sh/default.asp. Hartford Courant is particularly good. BTW, in my layman's opinion all the damage shots I've seen look like solid EF3, but really depends on some of those areas in Monson that haven't been well documented. Move the period (.) our of the URL and the link will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 even in Joplin...you can see widespread EF3 to EF4 damage...with only small pockets of EF5 we'll have to see if there's some small pockets of EF4 somewhere in there. Pete says construction standards in MA are some of the best in the country..however...we don't know how old and/or how well constructed the specific houses we are looking at. As a professional in the industry, homes built in this part of the country tend to be built better. Obviously every house is different but for the most part you are not dealing with slab on grade construction and homes are built to withstand heavy snows, hurricanes, and high winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 even in Joplin...you can see widespread EF3 to EF4 damage...with only small pockets of EF5 we'll have to see if there's some small pockets of EF4 somewhere in there. Pete says construction standards in MA are some of the best in the country..however...we don't know how old and/or how well constructed the specific houses we are looking at. Yep, I was going to say something like this too.. In my few experiences viewing tornado damage first hand, the common thing was how inconsistent the damage was even within a small area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag3 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I cant get this link to embed, but here is a yahoo video of stunning damage in Monson, from the air: http://in.news.yahoo...n-25418710.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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