Mr. Windcredible! Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That's a pretty strong statement to make. Can you show the pictures that look EF4? I'm not saying it wasn't-- but that kind of statement definitely needs some photographic support. Agree. I've seen a couple people say that...not just King Weenie. I'm no damage expert...and its not like an EF4 have never occured in SNE so its not impossible this was briefly at that intensity...but I certainly haven't seen anything yet that really supports it. At that level you should expect to see pictures of trees completely uprooted and blown away and houses leveled to the point where you can't make out anything put a pile of debris on the foundation. Worst of what I've seen so far has trees stripped bare with roofs blown off but walls still standing...houses destroyed but still somewhat recognizeable. That's more in line with EF2-3 damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Agree. I've seen a couple people say that...not just King Weenie. I'm no damage expert...and its not like an EF4 have never occured in SNE so its not impossible this was briefly at that intensity...but I certainly haven't seen anything yet that really supports it. At that level you should expect to see pictures of trees completely uprooted and blown away and houses leveled to the point where you can't make out anything put a pile of debris on the foundation. Worst of what I've seen so far has trees stripped bare with roofs blown off but walls still standing...houses destroyed but still somewhat recognizeable. That's more in line with EF2-3 damage. There are places that are just debris piles. Looking at it now. One thing to remember is that some of these places might be older homes, so you have to think about the integrity of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Agree. I've seen a couple people say that...not just King Weenie. I'm no damage expert...and its not like an EF4 have never occured in SNE so its not impossible this was briefly at that intensity...but I certainly haven't seen anything yet that really supports it. At that level you should expect to see pictures of trees completely uprooted and blown away and houses leveled to the point where you can't make out anything put a pile of debris on the foundation. Worst of what I've seen so far has trees stripped bare with roofs blown off but walls still standing...houses destroyed but still somewhat recognizeable. That's more in line with EF2-3 damage. That's been my take on what I have seen (i.e., I haven't seen everything): widespread EF2 with some pockets of EF3. I saw one pic where the trees looked all stripped down, but it was blurry and it was hard to get a good look. And, by the way, that is not minimizing it in any way. An EF3 tornado is a totally insane occurrence in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That's a pretty strong statement to make. Can you show the pictures that look EF4? I'm not saying it wasn't-- but that kind of statement definitely needs some photographic support. Look at the video I took in Monson of the car that was thrown in the air and wrapped around a tree. Bricks from an old building were 200 feet away across the street on a roof of a house. And yes, my camera is a GoPRO and shoots in widescreen, i STUPIDLY forgot to put it in regular mode cause the last thing I filmed was some skiing. Sorry.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That's a pretty strong statement to make. Can you show the pictures that look EF4? I'm not saying it wasn't-- but that kind of statement definitely needs some photographic support. I wasn't in Monson. I'm talking about the videos and pics frm Brimfield and Monson. Comprable to an Ef3 or 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Agree. I've seen a couple people say that...not just King Weenie. I'm no damage expert...and its not like an EF4 have never occured in SNE so its not impossible this was briefly at that intensity...but I certainly haven't seen anything yet that really supports it. At that level you should expect to see pictures of trees completely uprooted and blown away and houses leveled to the point where you can't make out anything put a pile of debris on the foundation. Worst of what I've seen so far has trees stripped bare with roofs blown off but walls still standing...houses destroyed but still somewhat recognizeable. That's more in line with EF2-3 damage. I was in Monson last night and I estimated some EF3 damage on Washington St right near the center of town where one house was moved about 3 feet off it's foundation (ready to tip over) and another across the street was completely flattened and totally unrecognizable. However, a garage (likely poorly constructed) immediately to the house's west was totally blown off its foundation by about 50 feet so the exceptional amount of debris in the air may have aided in the destruction of that house. I did hear, however, that the damage further east on Bethany Rd was even worse but I wasn't able to walk there on foot because it was so dangerous at night. Also I've seen pictures from Brimfield and Southbridge that look pretty similar to the destruction in that part of Monson so I'd say there was a fairly large swath of high end EF2/low end EF3 with the potential for isolated high end EF3/low end EF4. Also aerial pics from Springfield/West Springfield indicate some EF2 damage there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The damage I saw in Sturbridge was easily Ef2..and possibly Ef3. The damge in Monson photos/videos looks like Ef3..and likely even Ef4 Actually, odds and history say is highly unlikely. That is pure speculation and weenism on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Actually, odds and history say is highly unlikely. That is pure speculation and weenism on your part. Links?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I wasn't in Monson. I'm talking about the videos and pics frm Brimfield and Monson. Comprable to an Ef3 or 4 Can you show the pics of the EF4 damage? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just think it would be good for us all to look at them together and get opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Can you show the pics of the EF4 damage? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just think it would be good for us all to look at them together and get opinions. Watch the Brimfied video in this thread..and look at the Monson pics that the poster Hailstoned posted of the damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Links?? The burden of proof is on the person suggesting a really, really extreme event occurred (EF4 tornado in MA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Can you show the pics of the EF4 damage? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just think it would be good for us all to look at them together and get opinions. what would a car thrown a wrapped around a tree be? EF3? Also, there were trees pulled out of the ground and tossed across the street, giant hemlocks and stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrials Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Links?? List the amount of confirmed EF4/F4's that have hit New England. I believe its 1, maybe 2. As to damage assesments, you aren't qualified, and the mets here who are are even hesitant to say how strong it got. Saying it was likely an EF4 is just Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Watch the Brimfied video in this thread..and look at the Monson pics that the poster Hailstoned posted of the damage From the Hailstoned pics, I would say EF2 with pockets of EF3. The trees look snapped off, but they're also skinny, slender trees-- not thick trunks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan11295 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Lets keep this thread for pics and vids..Rating discussion can be in one of the other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 List the amount of confirmed EF4/F4's that have hit New England. I believe its 1, maybe 2. As to damage assesments, you aren't qualified, and the mets here who are are even hesitant to say how strong it got. Saying it was likely an EF4 is just Who are you to question it? Some 16 yr old kid acting like a grumpy old man. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 From the Hailstoned pics, I would say EF2 with pockets of EF3. The trees look snapped off, but they're also skinny, slender trees-- not thick trunks. literally an entire side of the mountain was stripped completely bare, and they were just trunks stripped of bark left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 From the Hailstoned pics, I would say EF2 with pockets of EF3. The trees look snapped off, but they're also skinny, slender trees-- not thick trunks. Ryan just posted that he saw ef3/possible low end Ef4 damage in Monson. He was there. Maybe you and the 16 yr old should be asking him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Lets keep this thread for pics and vids..Rating discussion can be in one of the other threads. OK, sure. Ryan just posted that he saw ef3/possible low end Ef4 damage in Monson. He was there. Maybe you and the 16 yr old should be asking him It's very natural to ask for evidence when someone says "EF4". It's not meant as an affront or an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 From the Hailstoned pics, I would say EF2 with pockets of EF3. The trees look snapped off, but they're also skinny, slender trees-- not thick trunks. What is this in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free_man Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Actually, odds and history say is highly unlikely. That is pure speculation and weenism on your part. Looks like max EF-3 damage to me, maybe up to 180mph or so. unless there are surveys done that could conclude otherwise, it is foolish to throw around EF-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 What is this in your opinion? I'm no engineer, but I would want to get a better look at what that structure was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free_man Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 200mph (the higher end of EF-4 catagory) can wipe buildings pretty clean...so the collapses shown in these brutally awful pictures and videos look more like 150-200mph winds to me. Just IMO, and haven't seen what everyone on ground and air has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 It's tough to gauge damage unless you know what the structure is like, but seeing piles of rubble and the stripped looked to trees and other clues..sort of looks like EF3 to me. Perhaps isolated pockets more in spots per Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 These are tornado aftermath pics from Monson, MA. Downtown Monson is in a valley with a steep range of hills both to the west and the east. The tornado seems to have done it's worst damage (F3?) in the valley just to the east of downtown with some homes totally destroyed, the winds having likely been focused and concentrated as the funnel began to encounter the ridge to the east of downtown. One of the pictures looks down on some of this damage from the yard of friends of ours. To say the least vistas have opened up not witnessed in many a year-- a tragic loss of trees. The First Church has once again lost its steeple, having experienced this once before in the 1938 hurricane. I got to the scene about 45 minutes after the tornado's passage. The pictures looking down the road are to the south towards the center of town. The smoke in one of them is from a still live wire. Luckily, no reports of fatalities at least as yet, though a number of injuries, not surprisingly. This one's quite striking. The house in the foreground looks collapsed-- I would definitely want to get a better look at that one. The other houses: EF2 to EF3. Most of the trees are quite slender, however one all the way on the left in the mid-ground is thicker, and it's totally snapped off. That's an interesting detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 200mph (the higher end of EF-3 catagory) can wipe buildings pretty clean...so the collapses shown in these brutally awful pictures and videos look more like 150-200mph winds to me. Just IMO, and haven't seen what everyone on ground and air has. EF3 is 136-165mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 What is this in your opinion? all exterior walls collapsed is an expect mid-range EF3...all walls collapsed is a low EF4...it's tough to say from the pic if there is any interior walls left standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 EF3 is 136-165mph. Don't use facts here. The others confirmed it was Ef2 or Ef3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free_man Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 EF3 is 136-165mph. argh.....EF-3 can still cause structure collapses, though? Is this all about the over-estimation of winds and damage...I guess that was the point I was trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 200mph (the higher end of EF-3 catagory) can wipe buildings pretty clean...so the collapses shown in these brutally awful pictures and videos look more like 150-200mph winds to me. Just IMO, and haven't seen what everyone on ground and air has. I agree with your EF-scale opinion on the damage pics we're seeing, but Re: actual wind speed, I believe EF4 goes up to 200 mph, and over 200 mph is EF5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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