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Pattern Change thread


ORH_wxman

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I really would not get all bent out of shape about Thanksgiving. If anything falls as frozen, treat it as a bonus. Lets look forward to the following week and all the fun that could be had. We hope.

It's nice seeing obvious signs of a very promising pattern continuing into at least the first week of December.

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FOR WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND THANKGIVING...PLENTY OF

UNCERTAINTY AS THE 12Z GFS IS INDICATES LOW PRESSURE MOVING FROM

THE OHIO RIVER VALLEY AT 00Z THURSDAY EASTWARD TO JUST OFF CAPE

COD BY 18Z THURSDAY. MEANWHILE...THE 12Z ECMWF IS FURTHER WEST

AND MUCH SLOWER...BRINGING THE LOW FROM IL/IN AREA NORTH TO JUST

OFF THE TIP OF LOWER MICHIGAN BY 00Z FRIDAY WHILE A SECONDARY LOW

BEGINS TO DEVELOP OVER EASTERN PA. GIVEN THE PATTERN OF LATE FOR

STORM SYSTEMS TO REMAIN CENTERED WEST OF THE FORECAST AREA...THE

ECMWF IS PREFERRED.

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Ginx... point noted, haha. That seems odd though as there have been storms cutting west of us. They may have originated in another area (Ohio Valley, midwest, etc) but they definitely have tracked a primary west of us at times over the past month. I do agree though that there has been some east coast cyclogenesis, but as far as storm tracks, I still think the primaries have been heading west.

Either way, good point and I'll concede because its 7 days away, haha :thumbsup:

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FOR WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND THANKGIVING...PLENTY OF

UNCERTAINTY AS THE 12Z GFS IS INDICATES LOW PRESSURE MOVING FROM

THE OHIO RIVER VALLEY AT 00Z THURSDAY EASTWARD TO JUST OFF CAPE

COD BY 18Z THURSDAY. MEANWHILE...THE 12Z ECMWF IS FURTHER WEST

AND MUCH SLOWER...BRINGING THE LOW FROM IL/IN AREA NORTH TO JUST

OFF THE TIP OF LOWER MICHIGAN BY 00Z FRIDAY WHILE A SECONDARY LOW

BEGINS TO DEVELOP OVER EASTERN PA. GIVEN THE PATTERN OF LATE FOR

STORM SYSTEMS TO REMAIN CENTERED WEST OF THE FORECAST AREA...THE

ECMWF IS PREFERRED.

I think that we are like a decade beyond using persistence like this. There's something called a pattern *change* that will probably make this a moot point.

Also, in the late autumn there is often a general tendency for consecutive storm tracks to shift east as snow pack builds over the northern plains and the baroclinic zone shifts SE.

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Yeah, 18z GFS looks more like the Euro. No big cold high to the north should be rain for most... starts as SN/PL/ZR in Central NE and even there goes over to rain.

I know some are saying its a long way out but that solution doesn't look all that wrong given the players on the field.

You know the chances of a snow/ice event are low when even Coastalwx and Will are saying don't bother investing too much energy into that system... its the cold air the comes afterward that matters.

All we need is Tip to come in here and engineer a solution that brings 10-20" to most of New England... and if anyone can find a way that it could happen, Tip can.

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I know some are saying its a long way out but that solution doesn't look all that wrong given the players on the field.

You know the chances of a snow/ice event are low when even Coastalwx and Will are saying don't bother investing too much energy into that system... its the cold air the comes afterward that matters.

All we need is Tip to come in here and engineer a solution that brings 10-20" to most of New England... and if anyone can find a way that it could happen, Tip can.

Yeah I'd say odds are definitely favoring this to be a no big deal storm for most of us... maybe some fun once you get up in C VT and C NH.

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rev kev said that would be the only direction it would trend? Im confused.

Well his job is to say it will trend snowier/colder regardless of objective analysis. :thumbsup:

I'm not saying that snow/ice isn't possible out of this system, but I'd probably lean toward mostly rain at this juncture. I like the pattern behind it better.

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I think that we are like a decade beyond using persistence like this. There's something called a pattern *change* that will probably make this a moot point.

Also, in the late autumn there is often a general tendency for consecutive storm tracks to shift east as snow pack builds over the northern plains and the baroclinic zone shifts SE.

I dont know... persistence won for the mid-Atlantic last season when multiple times people here were saying "pattern change" its time for these storms to start coming north.

I definitely think there's still a use for persistence especially when talking about a system that's 7 days away and given that the atmosphere tends to repeat itself over and over until something major interrupts the atmospheric system.

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No good high to the north doesn't get me too excited. Maybe some snow and pingers before we go to rain?

Yeah there's actually a decent chance that many could see brief snow/sleet to begin, even if this tracks pretty far west, but I'd definitely lean mostly rain right now. I'm a bit intrigued by the icing potential in the interior if we can trend the secondary sfc reflection further SE...but I'm not exactly holding my breath about it either.

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Well his job is to say it will trend snowier/colder regardless of objective analysis. :thumbsup:

I'm not saying that snow/ice isn't possible out of this system, but I'd probably lean toward mostly rain at this juncture. I like the pattern behind it better.

I agree 100% and I would not rule out one more cutter behind it.

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