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1 minute ago, Stebo said:

Did he collect the money first? If so then he committed fraud.

The money is paid up front.

Ask me how I know?

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Just now, Jonger said:

The money is paid up front.

Ask me how I know?

If the money was paid up front then he committed fraud by firing the people. Sounds like some classy business practice up there in Howell.

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7 minutes ago, Jonger said:

Your county strikes me as an outlier as far as the distribution of deaths.  I looked it up and the latest population estimate for Livingston county is 190,000.  I would bet there aren't many counties of that size that have 95-100% of the covid deaths coming from nursing homes.  I could see that being more common in very rural counties where it stays mostly contained inside of the facilities.  

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Just now, Hoosier said:

Your county strikes me as an outlier as far as the distribution of deaths.  I looked it up and the latest population estimate for Livingston county is 190,000.  I would bet there aren't many counties of that size that have 95-100% of the covid deaths coming from nursing homes.  I could see that being more common in very rural counties where it stays mostly contained inside of the facilities.  

All the counties around him except for Shiawassee have higher case rates and higher death rates.

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16 minutes ago, Stebo said:

Your county isn't the state and the virus wasn't just localized to your county. Just because the deaths were limited there to elderly doesn't remotely mean they were across the state. Stop acting like that stupid county remains in a vacuum.

Wow we get to the point of calling a county that seemingly did quite well limiting the unnecessary deaths a stupid county?  I’m sure his story of people choosing unemployment over working isn’t isolated either.  It’s a legit thing to bring up.

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11 minutes ago, Stebo said:

If the money was paid up front then he committed fraud by firing the people. Sounds like some classy business practice up there in Howell.

Nope, he'll have to pay it back. You have to use 80% of the funds for payroll. He won't be able to hire an entire new crew and train them with zero notice. He is like many other business owners with this $600 fiasco -- f-cked.

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Just now, wisconsinwx said:

Wow we get to the point of calling a county that seemingly did quite well limiting the unnecessary deaths a stupid county?  I’m sure his story of people choosing unemployment over working isn’t isolated either.  It’s a legit thing to bring up.

No it isn't but employers forcing people back to work like that or firing them is just a horrible business model. Those employees had every right to complain. I call his county stupid because he keeps using it as an anecdote to prove a point. He has done this for years, you know that.

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1 minute ago, Jonger said:

Nope, he'll have to pay it back. You have to use 80% of the funds for payroll. He won't be able to hire an entire new crew and train them with zero notice. He is like many other business owners with this $600 fiasco -- f-cked.

As he should pay it back. Also maybe he should offer his workers better pay to keep them on instead of firing them.

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12 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Your county strikes me as an outlier as far as the distribution of deaths.  I looked it up and the latest population estimate for Livingston county is 190,000.  I would bet there aren't many counties of that size that have 95-100% of the covid deaths coming from nursing homes.  I could see that being more common in very rural counties where it stays mostly contained inside of the facilities.  

It is what it is. 

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Just now, Stebo said:

No it isn't but employers forcing people back to work like that or firing them is just a horrible business model. Those employees had every right to complain. I call his county stupid because he keeps using it as an anecdote to prove a point. He has done this for years, you know that.

I'm going to assume his lawyers are better at legal issues than you are. If we're talking about wind blown rain, that's obviously your turf.

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Just now, Jonger said:

I'm going to assume his lawyers are better at legal issues than you are. If we're talking about wind blown rain, that's obviously your turf.

Yeah law supports the owners over the workers, that isn't even remotely shocking.

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1 minute ago, Stebo said:

As he should pay it back. Also maybe he should offer his workers better pay to keep them on instead of firing them.

If he paid lower than other establishments, nobody would work for him. I can't pay people under $15 an hour and expect good employees. I pay 17 year old part timers $15 an hour. That's how I personally handle things 

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Just now, Jonger said:

If he paid lower than other establishments, nobody would work for him. I can't pay people under $15 an hour and expect good employees. I pay 17 year old part timers $15 an hour. That's how I personally handle things 

Well that is good that you do, but maybe he could paid 16 or 17 per hour who knows. Trust me I do agree that 600/week extra was a bit too much 400 would be much more reasonable. But you even admit that pay is too low these days.

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Just now, Stebo said:

Well that is good that you do, but maybe he could paid 16 or 17 per hour who knows. Trust me I do agree that 600/week extra was a bit too much 400 would be much more reasonable. But you even admit that pay is too low these days.

They settled on $600 factoring in higher cost of living states, so this isn't going to be an issue in NYC or LA... but Michigan and other middle tier states are getting boned by employees not wanting to take a pay cut to return to work.

I mean... sh1t, I get it.... but it's irresponsible of the employee and they'll feel the pain when restrictions are lifted, the $600 ends and there is a mad dash for jobs. Think musical chairs, but with several million people being left without a chair when the music stops.

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9 minutes ago, Stebo said:

As he should pay it back. Also maybe he should offer his workers better pay to keep them on instead of firing them.

I believe the firing is what allows them to collect this more advantageous unemployment ironically, so in a backwards way it is doing them a favor.

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We do have too many restaurants, that's a fact. I read an article about that years ago. Europe has way less establishments for each person on average. They called it a bubble that's going to pop. Those who survive this will come out way ahead of the game.

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Here's the story.

Not a big town, so this kind of thing blew up. There are more updates, but this is part of it.

https://www.livingstondaily.com/story/news/local/community/howell/2020/06/09/adam-merkel-restaurants-sues-4-former-employees-defamation/5325392002/

I think he f-vked up with the lawsuits fwiw. There's no chance of getting a dime out of these women, so that's another story.

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Just now, Jonger said:

We do have too many restaurants, that's a fact. I read an article about that years ago. Europe has way less establishments for each person on average. They called it a bubble that's going to pop. Those who survive this will come out way ahead of the game.

Too many restaurants and too many bars. There just doesn't need to have bar on every corner.

 

3 minutes ago, Jonger said:

They settled on $600 factoring in higher cost of living states, so this isn't going to be an issue in NYC or LA... but Michigan and other middle tier states are getting boned by employees not wanting to take a pay cut to return to work.

I mean... sh1t, I get it.... but it's irresponsible of the employee and they'll feel the pain when restrictions are lifted, the $600 ends and there is a mad dash for jobs. Think musical chairs, but with several million people being left without a chair when the music stops.

I don't think it will be that bad, there has already been a lot who have gone back to work.

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3 minutes ago, Jonger said:

Here's the story.

Not a big town, so this kind of thing blew up. There are more updates, but this is part of it.

https://www.livingstondaily.com/story/news/local/community/howell/2020/06/09/adam-merkel-restaurants-sues-4-former-employees-defamation/5325392002/

The employees are right, they don't need an entire staff for to go only. That is pretty dumb by the employer. They could countersue for wrongful termination and probably win.

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My GF is going back to work tomorrow at the hospital. She showed no symptoms. After 10 days they’re allowed to go back to work not showing any symptoms. 
 

I feel ok too. So far. 
 

Tomorrow will be about 2 weeks in total.

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What a dumpster fire of a thread. Haha dear Lord this squabbling is wild. Just come down here guys, you can go swim in the ocean, relax with some beers and enjoy the day 

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7 day average deaths have eclipsed 1000.  That is where we were at the end of May/start of June.  

It was inevitable that the deaths were going to rise after the cases exploded, but I was hoping we'd keep the weekly average under 1000/day.  Now you just hope it doesn't climb much higher. 

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12 hours ago, Stebo said:

Did he collect the money first? If so then he committed fraud.

I'm a business owner as well... but on the professional services side so I don't have much experience with the PPP loans. But my understanding is that you have to maintain the  same amount of employees to receive the money, not the same employees. If someone chooses not to go back to work after being offered their job back they doomed themselves. The industries most affected are obviously lower paying such as hospitality, restaurants etc. 

I saw your comment about people being underpaid as well. That's partly true.... especially for large corporations. It costs a tremendous amount of money to operate a small to mid size business which most employees don't have visibility to. My philosophy is if you want to make more money work harder... it always pays off. 

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11 hours ago, Hoosier said:

7 day average deaths have eclipsed 1000.  That is where we were at the end of May/start of June.  

It was inevitable that the deaths were going to rise after the cases exploded, but I was hoping we'd keep the weekly average under 1000/day.  Now you just hope it doesn't climb much higher. 

I’m afraid it will, unlike then we don’t have a huge decline in new case numbers, just a plateau of 60 to 70 thousand new cases a day. Florida’s case numbers will be lower for awhile with testing sites shut down from threat of Hurricane.

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Going in to the doctor today after a third night of low fever and malaise. I still don't think it's very likely to be Covid, but I woke up to texts from friends asking that I get tested, so I suppose the choice is sort of out of my hands by now anyway. 

Edit: Like every day so far of this "illness", I'm currently totally fine. I went to bed at like 2:30 with a temperature of 100.2F, which had dropped to 99.4F by about 3:30 (I couldn't fall asleep to save my life, because most of the time I work overnights now). Right now, I have absolutely no symptoms of anything at all. So it's anyone's guess if I start feeling bad again later. 

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