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11 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

I think this is a good and valid argument here. But it’s also frustrating for people that do take care of themselves that their lives have been so impacted primarily (decisive word, I know) for those who don’t. 

Same reason it’s completely rational for people who got the vaccine, no questions asked, to be resentful of people who won’t get it.

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27 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

Same reason it’s completely rational for people who got the vaccine, no questions asked, to be resentful of people who won’t get it.

May be an over generalization but I don’t think most the people who aren’t getting the vaccine support restrictions. That’s not true in reverse.

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4 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

May be an over generalization but I don’t think most the people who aren’t getting the vaccine support restrictions. That’s not true in reverse.

 My point is, nearly everyone would like life to get back to some semblance of normal at some point. Yeah, some of us (including me) would love to work mostly from home forever or not have people halfway up our ass in every public place we go to, but for me personally, people refusing to get vaccinated are prolonging the amount of time until I get to travel internationally again and prolonging the time I have to worry about the virus mutating into some form that my vaccine isn’t resistant against. So yeah, just as healthy people are resentful of overweight people, vaccinated people have just as much of a reason to be resentful of unvaccinated people. The logic is the same.

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2 hours ago, TimB84 said:

 My point is, nearly everyone would like life to get back to some semblance of normal at some point. Yeah, some of us (including me) would love to work mostly from home forever or not have people halfway up our ass in every public place we go to, but for me personally, people refusing to get vaccinated are prolonging the amount of time until I get to travel internationally again and prolonging the time I have to worry about the virus mutating into some form that my vaccine isn’t resistant against. So yeah, just as healthy people are resentful of overweight people, vaccinated people have just as much of a reason to be resentful of unvaccinated people. The logic is the same.

More of a reason to be resentful.  Getting vaccinated is a much easier life change than changing from an unhealthy lifestyle to a healthy one. 

In the former you need to take a short amount of your day, endure a minor pain in the arm and maybe a couple days of feeling yucky. In the latter it's often an every day struggle and often comes with a lifetime of baggage for why someone has become unhealthy that needs to change. 

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1 hour ago, mattb65 said:

More of a reason to be resentful.  Getting vaccinated is a much easier life change than changing from an unhealthy lifestyle to a healthy one. 

In the former you need to take a short amount of your day, endure a minor pain in the arm and maybe a couple days of feeling yucky. In the latter it's often an every day struggle and often comes with a lifetime of baggage for why someone has become unhealthy that needs to change. 

Correct, but I was trying to toe the line here and take a middle ground.

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35 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

I believe most of the deaths being reported now are backlogs from earlier in the year 

Could be, though the definition of backlog has some subjectivity.  I think we'd all agree that anybody who died 3 or 4 months ago and is reported now is a backlog, but what about 1 month ago?  

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2 hours ago, mattb65 said:

More of a reason to be resentful.  Getting vaccinated is a much easier life change than changing from an unhealthy lifestyle to a healthy one. 

In the former you need to take a short amount of your day, endure a minor pain in the arm and maybe a couple days of feeling yucky. In the latter it's often an every day struggle and often comes with a lifetime of baggage for why someone has become unhealthy that needs to change. 

A lot of people are not getting vaccinated because they're naturally immune due to previous Covid infection. Is there reason to be resentful of these people? It makes no sense to me taking a shot that you don't need. There have been studies that have come out lately that have shown that natural protection from previous infection is long lasting. In fact there was a study that came out in the last week where they looked at the bone marrow samples of recovered patients, and it found that they still had protection 11 months later. This is great news for people that already had Covid. I do not like that health authorities are trying to push people that are already immune naturally to still get the vaccine. Makes little sense to take a shot that you don't need.

And as far as the healthy lifestyle, to me it doesn't seem like a struggle. 5 days a week of doing about 1 hour of intense exercise. That's what it took for me to lose 30 pounds. There are 168 hours in a week, so 5 hours set aside for exercise in a week doesn't seem like that much to ask to me. It's not as if you have to exercise for hours every day to lose a significant amount of weight.

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2 hours ago, mattb65 said:

More of a reason to be resentful.  Getting vaccinated is a much easier life change than changing from an unhealthy lifestyle to a healthy one. 

In the former you need to take a short amount of your day, endure a minor pain in the arm and maybe a couple days of feeling yucky. In the latter it's often an every day struggle and often comes with a lifetime of baggage for why someone has become unhealthy that needs to change. 

You’re talking about something that would have made the pandemic orders of magnitude less consequential- the pandemic cost us hundreds of thousands of lives it didn’t need to, and we won’t really know the economic implications of the policies we’ve executed for the next few years and even decades. And in the end, the vaccine might as well be a band aid for a lot of people in our country. And they will continue to slap more and more band aids on until there’s one that doesn’t work and being fat will still kill them in the end. 

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5 hours ago, TimB84 said:

 My point is, nearly everyone would like life to get back to some semblance of normal at some point. Yeah, some of us (including me) would love to work mostly from home forever or not have people halfway up our ass in every public place we go to, but for me personally, people refusing to get vaccinated are prolonging the amount of time until I get to travel internationally again and prolonging the time I have to worry about the virus mutating into some form that my vaccine isn’t resistant against. So yeah, just as healthy people are resentful of overweight people, vaccinated people have just as much of a reason to be resentful of unvaccinated people. The logic is the same.

It’s not. You’re missing the point completely, actually. I think at this point anybody who isn’t vaccinated is probably screaming for things to get back to normal faster than anyone. 
 

On the bright side, the pandemics pretty much done with as far as my little world is concerned. Feels good. 

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18 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

A lot of people are not getting vaccinated because they're naturally immune due to previous Covid infection. Is there reason to be resentful of these people? It makes no sense to me taking a shot that you don't need. There have been studies that have come out lately that have shown that natural protection from previous infection is long lasting. In fact there was a study that came out in the last week where they looked at the bone marrow samples of recovered patients, and it found that they still had protection 11 months later. This is great news for people that already had Covid. I do not like that health authorities are trying to push people that are already immune naturally to still get the vaccine. Makes little sense to take a shot that you don't need.

And as far as the healthy lifestyle, to me it doesn't seem like a struggle. 5 days a week of doing about 1 hour of intense exercise. That's what it took for me to lose 30 pounds. There are 168 hours in a week, so 5 hours set aside for exercise in a week doesn't seem like that much to ask to me. It's not as if you have to exercise for hours every day to lose a significant amount of weight.

I know the P.1 variant (Brazil) has shown more of an ability to reinfect people who previously had covid.  That variant has not really taken off in a big way in the US so far though.  Personally I don't think "I already had covid" is a solid reason to never get the vaccine, but for people who had covid, maybe delaying it is warranted.

As far as overweight people, I think we have to separate this out.  If you're massively obese (I'm talking like 300-400 pounds), there's not much of an excuse for that.  I don't care if you're poor and only have access to crappy quality food.  You're not going to get to that level unless you're frequently in a huge calorie surplus.  A lot more people are moderately overweight, and for some of them, it's not so easy to drop the pounds for various reasons.

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On 5/30/2021 at 4:09 PM, schoeppeya said:

It’s not. You’re missing the point completely, actually. I think at this point anybody who isn’t vaccinated is probably screaming for things to get back to normal faster than anyone. 
 

On the bright side, the pandemics pretty much done with as far as my little world is concerned. Feels good. 

So you would say that “fat people are making this last longer than it needs to” is somehow a MORE logical position to take than “unvaccinated people are making this last longer than it needs to”? Yeah, we’re done here. Agree to disagree.

Edit: Oh God, THIS was my 1000th post. Figures.

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51 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

A lot of people are not getting vaccinated because they're naturally immune due to previous Covid infection. Is there reason to be resentful of these people? It makes no sense to me taking a shot that you don't need. There have been studies that have come out lately that have shown that natural protection from previous infection is long lasting. In fact there was a study that came out in the last week where they looked at the bone marrow samples of recovered patients, and it found that they still had protection 11 months later. This is great news for people that already had Covid. I do not like that health authorities are trying to push people that are already immune naturally to still get the vaccine. Makes little sense to take a shot that you don't need.

And as far as the healthy lifestyle, to me it doesn't seem like a struggle. 5 days a week of doing about 1 hour of intense exercise. That's what it took for me to lose 30 pounds. There are 168 hours in a week, so 5 hours set aside for exercise in a week doesn't seem like that much to ask to me. It's not as if you have to exercise for hours every day to lose a significant amount of weight.

I would guess that, of people who are unvaccinated, there is a greater portion whose reason is “because Bill Gates/ liberals/ microchips/ that chemical in fireflies/ some gobbledygook I read on Facebook” than whose reason is “because I’m healthy and don’t think I need it”. You’re giving the human race a lot of credit here.

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7 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

I know the P.1 variant (Brazil) has shown more of an ability to reinfect people who previously had covid.  That variant has not really taken off in a big way in the US so far though.  Personally I don't think "I already had covid" is a solid reason to never get the vaccine, but for people who had covid, maybe delaying it is warranted.

As far as overweight people, I think we have to separate this out.  If you're massively obese (I'm talking like 300-400 pounds), there's not much of an excuse for that.  I don't care if you're poor and only have access to crappy quality food.  You're not going to get to that level unless you're frequently in a huge calorie surplus.  A lot more people are moderately overweight, and for some of them, it's not so easy to drop the pounds for various reasons.

No question it's difficult for some people for a number of reasons, and that's why I would never judge all people for failing to lose weight. Some people have health problems that prevent them from being able to exercise. Others have very difficult jobs where they work tremendously long hours, and that makes it very difficult to exercise. There are healthy food issues, as you said. So some people certainly have valid reasons, but of course there are many people that do not have valid reasons and could lose the weight if they wanted to. It's a shame that so many of these people have died because they didn't understand that they were at greater severe Covid risk due to being out of shape.

A huge problem has been the lack of messaging from health authorities during this pandemic. Recently I posted the study done in California where they looked at nearly 50,000 people that got Covid, and found that the people that were physically inactive had much higher rates of hospitalization and death than people that were consistently physically active. Dr. Robert Sallis, a family and sports medicine physician, was the lead author of the study. He is one of many doctors that have been VERY upset with the health authorities for not getting the message out during the pandemic. Here are a few quotes from Dr. Sallis...

"The bottom line from our data is that physical inactivity is the biggest modifiable risk factor of severe Covid," Sallis says.

"Unfortunately, most of the messaging has been around just hide in the house, wear a mask, distance and wait for a vaccine," Sallis says. "And that's been a huge mistake. We speak very little, which is typical in health care today, about personal responsibility, and people need to take control of their health and the best way to do it is by being active."

"A message that physical activity could protect you from ending up in the hospital, in my view, could have saved lives over the past year, but I would also say it's not too late to get started."

 

So many other doctors are making similar quotes. It's just really a shame that a pandemic of this horrific level didn't have to happen. The state of health is very sad, and a big problem is many doctors themselves are in denial about this problem and refuse to get the message out.

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21 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

So you would say that “fat people are making this last longer than it needs to” is somehow a MORE logical position to take than “unvaccinated people are making this last longer than it needs to”? Yeah, we’re done here. Agree to disagree.

Why don’t you argue against what I’m saying instead of what you think I’m saying. Overweight people are one of the primary reasons (the foremost reason, actually) this pandemic was so impactful in the first place. 

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28 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

I would guess that, of people who are unvaccinated, there is a greater portion whose reason is “because Bill Gates/ liberals/ microchips/ that chemical in fireflies/ some gobbledygook I read on Facebook” than whose reason is “because I’m healthy and don’t think I need it”. You’re giving the human race a lot of credit here.

You're wrong here and overgeneralizing a demographic that you disagree with politically. 

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41 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

I know the P.1 variant (Brazil) has shown more of an ability to reinfect people who previously had covid.  That variant has not really taken off in a big way in the US so far though.  Personally I don't think "I already had covid" is a solid reason to never get the vaccine, but for people who had covid, maybe delaying it is warranted.

As far as overweight people, I think we have to separate this out.  If you're massively obese (I'm talking like 300-400 pounds), there's not much of an excuse for that.  I don't care if you're poor and only have access to crappy quality food.  You're not going to get to that level unless you're frequently in a huge calorie surplus.  A lot more people are moderately overweight, and for some of them, it's not so easy to drop the pounds for various reasons.

Like too much food and not enough exercise?

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7 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Why don’t you argue against what I’m saying instead of what you think I’m saying. Overweight people are one of the primary reasons (the foremost reason, actually) this pandemic was so impactful in the first place. 

Unvaccinated people are the foremost reason it’s going to continue. So it’s the same argument.

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2 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

You're wrong here and overgeneralizing a demographic that you disagree with politically. 

“Vaccines work and everyone (with very few exceptions) should get them” isn’t a political view, it’s a scientific one.

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16 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

“Vaccines work and everyone (with very few exceptions) should get them” isn’t a political view, it’s a scientific one.

"carrying excess bodyfat is unhealthy and a tax on the healthcare system and everyone  who is overweight (with no exceptions) should lose weight isn't a political view, its a scientific one"

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The pandemic is not over, and it is seriously screwed up to insinuate that someone in here wants it to continue. As long as there are thousands of people with the disease, technically, there is still a pandemic. 

And yes, agreed, the obesity epidemic is also a scientific view. I don't think anyone else said otherwise, so I don't know why you're touting this as some sort of big aha-gotchu moment.

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6 minutes ago, Scorpion said:

I’m not getting some experimental vaccine for a mild flu.

That's essentially all it is.

Anyhow....vaccines are legit ways to irradiate human pathogens, but this is pretty much as dangerous as any seasonal flu.

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32 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

It’s not continuing. Despite your wishes otherwise, the pandemics over. 

I certainly don’t wish otherwise. You used to argue in good faith, what changed?

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21 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

The pandemic is not over, and it is seriously screwed up to insinuate that someone in here wants it to continue. As long as there are thousands of people with the disease, technically, there is still a pandemic. 

And yes, agreed, the obesity epidemic is also a scientific view. I don't think anyone else said otherwise, so I don't know why you're touting this as some sort of big aha-gotchu moment.

If thats the only qualification you can add the the long list of hundreds of other pandemics ongoing in the country. 

There is undeniably a certain type of person who has enjoyed the side effects and shifts in cultural dynamics the pandemic has caused. 

There is also an undeniable sentiment every time it gets brought up thats its silly to expect people to get in shape. 

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34 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

It’s not continuing. Despite your wishes otherwise, the pandemics over. 

This guy is right, time to shut this thread down.  There's been nothing of value posted in the last three pages

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2 hours ago, schoeppeya said:

You’re talking about something that would have made the pandemic orders of magnitude less consequential- the pandemic cost us hundreds of thousands of lives it didn’t need to, and we won’t really know the economic implications of the policies we’ve executed for the next few years and even decades. And in the end, the vaccine might as well be a band aid for a lot of people in our country. And they will continue to slap more and more band aids on until there’s one that doesn’t work and being fat will still kill them in the end. 

So full of shit. 

 

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The biggest risk of covid is by far age not being overweight. Being overweight is much more important if you're under 50...but given that covid deaths are far higher in the old...it doesn't have a large effect on the total mortality of the disease.

Vaccines are literally the ****ing solution to a once in a 100-year pandemic. It's not band aid. 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

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