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January Mid/long Range Winter Discussion


Wow

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Everyone take a break from the crappy GFS LR output for 5 minutes and go read the Winter discussion in the main thread.  You can thank me later. :D

I don't know if you were sent from the North Pole or heaven...but thank you.  Of course someone pointed out the Euro doesn't have such neg AO as GEFS....I should have stopped at the post before that one.

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Wow, so we get a big storm showing up in the medium range and most are picking it apart? Ok I guess...I'm not overly excited but it shows what potential this pattern has. I also like the timing of it. We get cold starting to move with another system moving in. This is usually how we score with threats on the backside of a relaxing pattern. It'll be interesting to see what the Euro says but the GEFS this morning hinted at this storm as well. 

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Fab Feb!  I guess we need to see if the AO dips below -5.

You can get too much of a good thing though.  if you take a look at how the GEFS depicts the 16-18 fantasy threat is it suppressed so far south west its below the border.  Maybe -5 is not so good...-3 perhaps but I don't really know

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You can get too much of a good thing though.  if you take a look at how the GEFS depicts the 16-18 fantasy threat is it suppressed so far south west its below the border.  Maybe -5 is not so good...-3 perhaps but I don't really know

I am thinking if we want a rocking February filled with blocking, the lower the better.  The GFS and GEM suggest we take a run at a daily -AO value of sub 6, something only seen 8 times since 1950. (8 days in approximately 23,800 days)  Very rare indeed!

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GEFS looks great, the blocking setting up, it's been mis-handling the pac since this all got going and I suspect the trough will shift east.  The pac low isn't that bad a spot as is.  I know it shows it AN in the SE but I ain't buying it.  --AO, --NAO, +PNA, n-EPO, -WPO isn't cold SW and warm SE.

 

 

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Forgive my ignorance but where are you talking about? TIA!

from Don Sutherland:

 

 the latest GFS ensembles are forecast the AO to plunge. There is strong agreement among the ensemble members that the AO will fall to -5.000 or below.

 

Such extreme values are uncommon. However, such extreme values have become somewhat more common since 2000.

 

Such extreme blocking would suggest troughing in eastern North America. More importantly, should such extreme blocking develop, it would provide a strong signal of a blocky February. In short, even as the most recent December proved to be an autumn, not winter month, an extreme AO-, should it develop, could offer the strongest signal so far that there will be plenty of opportunity for winter weather from mid-January onward. North America and Europe would both see such opportunities if past extreme January blocking cases are representative.

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I don't know if you were sent from the North Pole or heaven...but thank you.  Of course someone pointed out the Euro doesn't have such neg AO as GEFS....I should have stopped at the post before that one.

 

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if the Euro caves in on this.  Either way, what a drastic turn-around from December!

 

Forgive my ignorance but where are you talking about? TIA!

 

Here's the link, but Coach nailed the gist of it:  http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/47332-winter-2015-2016-medium-term-discussion/page-5?

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It was very close, leaves some energy behind in SW, if it had it brought it all out it would have been game on.  Looks so much better/closer than previous runs.

yea, a great sign that as the gfs showed the storm the euro trended better as well.  both show plenty of cold air which is priority #1 at this range

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lol, I don't think this forum could survive without crappy GFS LR output

How in the h-bomb are we getting this kind of -AO with such a hostile stratosphere

 

I keep thinking the AO is going to fade to neutral/positive, it has to eventually...PV is still a beast.

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How is the threat around the 17th looking on the Euro?  It looked somewhat improved on the 12z GEFS...except for the torching temps.

 

Only out to day 8, but the Op's after day 6 have been really bad, will have to wait till EPS comes out in a couple of hours.

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Impressive looking -NAO on 12z Euro run today late.

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I just came in here to post that.  My main take-aways from the Euro are that it keeps the PNA and the -NAO pretty much through the run.  I'd like to see a little more cold build into Canada, but I guess with all of the ridging up there, that may be a tall order.

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I keep thinking the AO is going to fade to neutral/positive, it has to eventually...PV is still a beast.

 

It's a beast but it's taking its shots. Take a look at 30/50hpa on today's euro run. Splits at those levels (still cold as heck) and 10hpa getting disturbed. 

 

I'm not really worried about the strat. It's clearly not the pretty blue target it was during all of Dec and major disruptions typically pop up in the medium to short range.

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Hopefully a pro can answer this for me but what exactly is forcing our S/W's so far south? Usually, you don't see energy diving like that unless the PV is really strong. In this case it doesn't seem extreme enough to force them down to Flordia or the "meat grinder" scenario. Shouldn't they ride along the boundry and at worst be a southern slider? 

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WxSouth
4 mins ·

Blocking is a term you'll hear more of this Winter. The last few years we had almost no blocking in the Polar Regions , especially near Greenland,in fact the opposite occurred. When blocking occurs in eastern Canada, the North Pole, or Greenland, usually it portends Winter mischief in the Southeast, or Eastern US. All Global models were forecasting it in the longer ranges and keep it up now in the more reliable shorter ranges. European is developing a Blockbuster of a Greenla...nd Block in 7 through 10 days, with vast Polar warmth dominating. What does this mean for the lower 48? Combine an El Nino southern storm track with cold air pressing southward and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. It's impossible to name the exact date(s) of the Southern /MidSouth/Winter storm, just yet.

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Hopefully a pro can answer this for me but what exactly is forcing our S/W's so far south? Usually, you don't see energy diving like that unless the PV is really strong. In this case it doesn't seem extreme enough to force them down to Flordia or the "meat grinder" scenario. Shouldn't they ride along the boundry and at worst be a southern slider? 

 

Burger, I'm no pro, but I believe it's just an artifact of the STJ.  I've heard it said that when you have an active STJ, the latitude at which the wave enters the CONUS is the latitude at which it exits.  I'm sure that's not always true, but in this case, the Euro shows the energy in the STJ nicely, with wave after wave tracking basically west to east across the southern tier.  This part of the equation is just what we need.

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