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November 2014


Rtd208

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It's interesting how this time of year has been experiencing these extreme events in recent years.

I found a surface pressure anomaly chart for Sandy which was down close to 10 standard

deviations below normal. The chart didn't even capture the lowest pressure

so the actual SD was more extreme. The October 2010 storm was close to 7 standard

deviations below normal.

 

attachicon.gifMSLP-sd.gif

 

attachicon.gifScreen shot 2014-11-06 at 6.06.28 PM.png

 

Can't leave out the October 2011 record snow.

 

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/archive.html?year=2011&month=10

 

 

Rare October snowstorm hammers Northeast U.S.

By: Christopher C. Burt , 10:15 PM GMT on October 30, 2011

The most extraordinary October snowstorm in over two centuries in the Northeast U.S. has finally come to an end this Sunday afternoon. Not since the infamous snow hurricane of 1804 have such prodigious amounts of snow been recorded in New England and, to a lesser extent, in the mid-Atlantic states

 

And the October 2006 event in Buffalo.

 

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/buf/storm101206.html

 

Maximum Snowfall: Lake Erie 24" (Depew, Alden) Duration: 16 hours +/- Prime Feature: Dramatic crippling out of season event. Unprecedented meteorological parameters.

Words cannot do justice to the astounding event which opened the 2006-07 season. It was the most unique in  regards to destruction of trees and power outages, directly because of its out of season factor. Almost a million residents of the Niagara Frontier lost power, some for as long as a week, and tree damage was the worst in memory, especially to the lush vegetation in the many historic parkways and parks in the Buffalo area.

Nov 7th 2012 one week after Sandy, the Son of Sandy Nor'easter dropped record amounts of snow along many of Sandy's hardest hit Jersey shore towns. The 13" that fell here caused more tree damage than Sandy and extended power outages for several more days.
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Dsnow, talk about an over-running and big time snow event according to the  NAVGEM. to be its the NAVGEM lol.

Fun to look at -- look at the ridge out west -- but yeah it's the NAVGEM.

In slightly less unrealistic modeling data, the GEFS has a pretty nice signal days 7-10.

http://synoptic.envsci.rutgers.edu/dougsimo/GEFSUSPrecip00216.gif

post-73-0-86579300-1415346060_thumb.gif

The mean results from most of the GEFS individuals (at least the 12 that I plot -- there are actually 20 total) having some sort of storm. Some are at different times, most are a mixed bag and rain at the coast, but two or three of them have decent snows even down to the coast.

http://synoptic.envsci.rutgers.edu/dougsimo/GEFSIndiesUSPrecip00180.gif

http://synoptic.envsci.rutgers.edu/dougsimo/GEFSIndiesUSPrecip00192.gif

http://synoptic.envsci.rutgers.edu/dougsimo/GEFSIndiesUSPrecip00204.gif

http://synoptic.envsci.rutgers.edu/dougsimo/GEFSIndiesUSPrecip00216.gif

http://synoptic.envsci.rutgers.edu/dougsimo/GEFSIndiesUSPrecip00228.gif

http://synoptic.envsci.rutgers.edu/dougsimo/GEFSIndiesUSPrecip00240.gif

http://synoptic.envsci.rutgers.edu/dougsimo/indexgefs.html

Too bad my programming skills are terribly mediocre outside of plotting weather models and I can't get them to all scroll through an animation at once like weather.cod.edu

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That is going to be the risk in this type of set up where the second wave gets suppressed if the first low pushes the

baroclinic zone too far east like we saw last week. The Euro ensemble has a more suppressed look also but

it could just be smoothing among the mean missing a stronger vort. Still too early to know how this will play out. If the OP holds this solution under 120 hrs, then I will pay attention.

 

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That is going to be the risk in this type of set up where the second wave gets suppressed if the first low pushes the

baroclinic zone too far east like we saw last week. The Euro ensemble has a more suppressed look also but

it could just be smoothing among the mean missing a stronger vort. Still too early to know how this will play out. If the OP holds this solution under 120 hrs, then I will pay attention.

get_legacy_plot-web248-20141107084619-28490-5629.gif

Agreed we should get through this weekend and to monday 12z before we start taking this kind of long range threat seriously. The past couple years have shown it can snow in november but it should still be looked at as the exception not the rule

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That is going to be the risk in this type of set up where the second wave gets suppressed if the first low pushes the

baroclinic zone too far east like we saw last week. The Euro ensemble has a more suppressed look also but

it could just be smoothing among the mean missing a stronger vort. Still too early to know how this will play out. If the OP holds this solution under 120 hrs, then I will pay attention.

 

attachicon.gifget_legacy_plot-web248-20141107084619-28490-5629.gif

 

Most of the ensemble members don't show much for us. But the Euro control member is little further NW than the op.

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Agreed we should get through this weekend and to monday 12z before we start taking this kind of long range threat seriously. The past couple years have shown it can snow in november but it should still be looked at as the exception not the rule

I have seen a foot of snow in OCT and APRIL in my life.

Put your hand over the calender and just worry about the pattern not what day it.

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We'll have to see if the guidance is correct with having some southern stream energy interact with the northern stream troughing toward the end of next week. I will say one thing -- the pattern and airmass provide support. So this isn't just fluff, fantasy or hype.

http://mp1.met.psu.edu/~fxg1/AVN_6z/f180.gif

Anthony is that you??? :lol: i agree though next weekend may look prime for our first widespread winter storm threat. Dont think we should be picking this apart till monday at the very earliest. Many nuances that could make this crap the bed fast including the baroclonic zone off the EC.
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I have seen a foot of snow in OCT and APRIL in my life.

Put your hand over the calender and just worry about the pattern not what day it.

Agreed i really meant to say keep your expectations tempered at this point, is it possible we see a notable snowstorm next week? Yea but we have to remain reasonable at this forecasting range
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First flakes / traces are likely to happen in this upcoming pattern; I agree with that. But in order to achieve accumulations, all the proverbial ducks need to be aligned perfectly. A conducive regime in December, January or February might produce a SECS, while that same pattern in November may not produce for various reasons. November of 1976 was one of the coldest Novembers on record for this area -- mean temp of 39.5F in New Brunswick -- yet only a trace of snow total. So having a major arctic outbreak certainly won't guarantee anything. We need favorable timing, strong blocking, antecedent sfc high pressure / cold air mass, and probably a Miller A low. The two most recent snowy Novembers -- 1995's late November event and 2012's early November event -- were both Miller A / southern origin surface lows. Northern stream Miller B's generally won't perform as well at this time of year due to the ML jet being too far north, and precip-type issues that arise for coastal areas during energy transfers (the warmer SST's play a role in this as well). Point being, the potential is there, but much needs to be accomplished in order to realize that potential in November. However, I'd say first flakes / trace are a virtual lock in the next couple weeks.

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I wonder if there is a way to agree for this winter not to post the whole (it is far away, not likely going to happen, etc.  for things more distant in the models).  I think we are all pretty on-board with that the 240 Hours gfs isn't going to come to pass exactly as depicted.  It is ok to say what the model shows and discuss it, that's what these kind of boards are for.  Can we just assume that caveat is implicit in all of those posts?  Just a thought.

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I wonder if there is a way to agree for this winter not to post the whole (it is far away, not likely going to happen, etc.  for things more distant in the models).  I think we are all pretty on-board with that the 240 Hours gfs isn't going to come to pass exactly as depicted.  It is ok to say what the model shows and discuss it, that's what these kind of boards are for.  Can we just assume that caveat is implicit in all of those posts?  Just a thought.

Never gonna happen

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