moneypitmike Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I'm going to chime in with a point about the native/tourist thing. One thing to keep in mind is that the cultural norm varies not only within the country but within much smaller areas as well. The attitudes/lifestyle/pace of one area may be totally different than those of other areas. What makes some seem like an a**holes on vacation may be normal in their permanent location. Similarly, reverse those roles and the same perception may be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 A very large number of the people I know both in Stowe, Waterbury, Burlington, what have you, are not native Vermonters. Granted my friend base is largely from going to UVM which although is a state college, has a huge out-of-state base. But I think it's why a lot of folks in eastern VT or NEK don't consider the ski towns or Burlington (large transient populations) true Vermont. I never understood it but can see how there's the pride issue in play, trying to take ownership of where you are from without giving it away to people from elsewhere. That's a normal human reaction though, as for hundreds of years humans have been skeptical or gone to war or persecuted people not indigenous to a particular spot. Though I've lived in Maine since 1971, I'm not and never will be "from Maine", and have tried to be transparent about it. Only once has my non-Maine-ness been an issue, and that was from a politician. I don't want to be like the fellow in a Tim Sample story, which goes something like this: Chester Goodley was 6 months old when his family moved to Maine, and growingup/growing old he could never understand why he was still considered to be "from away". When he died, at age 97, friends had this epitaph engraved on his tombstone, "He was almost one of us." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Though I've lived in Maine since 1971, I'm not and never will be "from Maine", and have tried to be transparent about it. Only once has my non-Maine-ness been an issue, and that was from a politician. I don't want to be like the fellow in a Tim Sample story, which goes something like this: Chester Goodley was 6 months old when his family moved to Maine, and growingup/growing old he could never understand why he was still considered to be "from away". When he died, at age 97, friends had this epitaph engraved on his tombstone, "He was almost one of us." lol awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Of course there are one or two azzhats. I never meant none...but for the most part, people going up there to vacation, aren't looking to be D-bags. Are there? Of course...but for the most part I feel perfectly fine stating that the majority are just people looking to have a good time. I have seen it both ways up here with tourist and summer residents from other states, Some were Jackasses and some are really decent folks, But you can probably say the same about the natives here as well, Its just that it does not sit well with most if its someone from out of state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radders Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Sounds like I need to get myself some VT license plates lol In all seriousness, I can see both sides of this argument. Personally I am a nature lover and love the beauty of NNE. I am quite prepared to leave behind my "yuppie" lifestyle when the time comes, and enjoy the local community and charm of whereever I eventually end up. I think that there is probably a pocket of those the move north from CT/MA/NY that act like they own the place because they have money and are used to a certain way of life further south, but I would think that most that move to rural areas, are genuine and want to contribute to the community and, not destroy it or disrepect it. There are always a few that spoil it for the rest of us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I have seen it both ways up here with tourist and summer residents from other states, Some were Jackasses and some are really decent folks, But you can probably say the same about the natives here as well, Its just that it does not sit well with most if its someone from out of state I agree completely, there are native born jerks and out of state born jerks. Just because you are born in a particular state doesn't automatically make you a good person. I think that for the most part, people are fine with tourists. As I mentioned, PF's post is an example of what some see as a patronizing attitude from out of staters. I want to emphasize that I do not believe that PF is like that but others could read that and get the idea that he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Going back to the thread... I might actually be making an offer on a condo in Bretton Woods. I know it gets lots of snow, how is it for retention??? Can't imagine it's much worse than where we are in Bartlett... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneypitmike Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Going back to the thread... I might actually be making an offer on a condo in Bretton Woods. I know it gets lots of snow, how is it for retention??? Can't imagine it's much worse than where we are in Bartlett... LOL--two places isn't enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Going back to the thread... I might actually be making an offer on a condo in Bretton Woods. I know it gets lots of snow, how is it for retention??? Can't imagine it's much worse than where we are in Bartlett... Retention there is good...though it is better on the east side of MWN where Pinkham Notch is...but Bretton Woods area does well regardless because their elevation is like 1600 feet. I was up at Bretton Woods skiing in April this year taking advantage of their $29 lift tickets and the snow pack was definitely still pretty good. I would say that areas deeper in retain a bit better like around Crawford Notch State Park. But you can't do wrong at Bretton Woods with 1600 feet and the whole Franconia Notch region to the southwest acting as a huge wall in CAD situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Haha I know... The rentals do really well up there, so I figured might as well have 2 options to choose from, and spend my weekend at whichever one is not rented! LOL--two places isn't enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Thanks! I've looked in Pinkham Notch as well, but there aren't many I like. Dana Place has a couple of units for sale but they gave me the creeps... Retention there is good...though it is better on the east side of MWN where Pinkham Notch is...but Bretton Woods area does well regardless because their elevation is like 1600 feet. I was up at Bretton Woods skiing in April this year taking advantage of their $29 lift tickets and the snow pack was definitely still pretty good. I would say that areas deeper in retain a bit better like around Crawford Notch State Park. But you can't do wrong at Bretton Woods with 1600 feet and the whole Franconia Notch region to the southwest acting as a huge wall in CAD situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Thanks! I've looked in Pinkham Notch as well, but there aren't many I like. Dana Place has a couple of units for sale but they gave me the creeps... Bretton Woods area is very scenic too...I really like the views and landscape around there. The view of MWN is prettier from that side IMHO. I'm sure you'll have no problem renting out a place there in either winter or summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Agree. You can definitely tell the difference in elevation in the vegetation; plus everything is extremely manicured and well kept. Just a really beautiful valley. Also, the Ammonoosac trail up to Lakes of the Clouds is a GREAT hike. Bretton Woods area is very scenic too...I really like the views and landscape around there. The view of MWN is prettier from that side IMHO. I'm sure you'll have no problem renting out a place there in either winter or summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 PF, please don't take this the wrong way but the tone of what you just wrote is exactly the type of attitude that is annoying. You live here and I know how much you love it but you just said that you don't really know anybody from here and that it's the natives that generally cause problems. Although, I truly believe you did not mean to come off like that but you did. In many ways it seems as if you live in a Stowe bubble. I am not saying that locals don't cause any problems or are models of perfect behavior but they certainly aren't the only ones doing some of the things you noted either. I was wrong in that post and didn't mean to come off that way. I think it's more socio-economic related than native vs. tourist. And like I stated earlier, I've only lived in VT areas with large transient populations like the Burlington to Stowe corridor. Maybe I live in a Stowe bubble but it's more a resort town or yuppie bubble more likely. The bubble is the same in a large number of towns around here...Waterbury, Warren, Waitsfield, Richmond, Hinesburg, Stowe, Burlington, Jerhico, etc. a lot of those towns are filled with people who either moved here in college for UVM or Med School or moved because professional level jobs are available and the quality of life is higher in VT. Towns that seem mostly occupied by folks driving to work with a bike and kayak on their roof rack. I'll be honest, the nearest place to me with a lot of native Vermonters to here is Morrisville. Folks my age in Morrisville seem to have zero respect for where they live. Morrisville is a tough community. I think that causes there to be different values placed on certain things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneypitmike Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Haha I know... The rentals do really well up there, so I figured might as well have 2 options to choose from, and spend my weekend at whichever one is not rented! What complex is your Bartlett place again? We stayed in Nordic Village this past weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Ah! That's actually where I wanted to buy originally, but then found out their Association rules are awful (eg - owners pay $500/month for maintenance but only rental guests can use the pool - WTF!). I'm at Attitash Woods, off of West Side Road, about 2 miles from Attitash at ~800 ft. I liked this complex because it's quiet, the places are MUCH bigger than Nordic, and the views are really amazing. Much more residential than Nordic (no pool, gym, etc - just great townhouses). There's actually a unit for sale in our complex, too: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/43-Attitash-Woods-Rd-43-Bartlett-NH-03812/2105586407_zpid/ What complex is your Bartlett place again? We stayed in Nordic Village this past weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Bretton Woods area is very scenic too...I really like the views and landscape around there. The view of MWN is prettier from that side IMHO. I'm sure you'll have no problem renting out a place there in either winter or summer. I really like the Bretton Woods area too...they get in on upslope events too. I've seen them get their share of 6-15" fluff snowfalls being NW of MWN. However a quick look at a topo map, they'd have to suffer sometimes in easterly or SEly flow. Definitely not as much as Whitefield but in any sort of blocked low level SE flow with a wind shift or inversion at 5-7000ft, that extra precip isn't making it over MWN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I'm not a big fan personally of the ski area at BW, but it is fantastic for beginner and intermediate cruising terrain and there's a big area to explore and several high speed lifts. Also they rarely have wind holds, so you can get out on storm days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I'm not a big fan personally of the ski area at BW, but it is fantastic for beginner and intermediate cruising terrain and there's a big area to explore and several high speed lifts. Also they rarely have wind holds, so you can get out on storm days. Yeah the terrain wasn't very difficult...my first visit there was this past April. But $29 lift tickets and the view you get sold me, lol. I certainly wouldn't pay rack rate there though...I'd want something like Wildcat for that $$. Gorgeous area though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borderwx Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 A very large number of the people I know both in Stowe, Waterbury, Burlington, what have you, are not native Vermonters. Granted my friend base is largely from going to UVM which although is a state college, has a huge out-of-state base. But I think it's why a lot of folks in eastern VT or NEK don't consider the ski towns or Burlington (large transient populations) true Vermont. I never understood it but can see how there's the pride issue in play, trying to take ownership of where you are from without giving it away to people from elsewhere. That's a normal human reaction though, as for hundreds of years humans have been skeptical or gone to war or persecuted people not indigenous to a particular spot. I think they look at those places as busy vermont, and when your used to the opposite it gets uncomfortable, when it begins expanding into your comfort zone then people talk, but they adapt too. It is way overstated the grumpiness of people here, they just aren't talkative period, until you interact enough with them, then it is usually just the opposite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I think they look at those places as busy vermont, and when your used to the opposite it gets uncomfortable, when it begins expanding into your comfort zone then people talk, but they adapt too. It is way overstated the grumpiness of people here, they just aren't talkative period, until you interact enough with them, then it is usually just the opposite That's a good descriptor... "busy Vermont." Its more like the suburbs of anytown, USA, just located in the Vermont landscape. And I think that extends to the ski towns, too. And that brings us full circle in the discussion of housing...it all depends on what you are looking for. You can have the cabin in the woods dream, with no one around, or you can have a more "busy" town but with more, services and conviences nearby. Personally I'd love to have a little 2-3 room cabin out in the NEK to go visit...like somewhere way out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Yeah the terrain wasn't very difficult...my first visit there was this past April. But $29 lift tickets and the view you get sold me, lol. I certainly wouldn't pay rack rate there though...I'd want something like Wildcat for that $$. Gorgeous area though... it's fun and gorgeous and a fantastic place to bring newbies, the view alone hooks them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneypitmike Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Ah! That's actually where I wanted to buy originally, but then found out their Association rules are awful (eg - owners pay $500/month for maintenance but only rental guests can use the pool - WTF!). I'm at Attitash Woods, off of West Side Road, about 2 miles from Attitash at ~800 ft. I liked this complex because it's quiet, the places are MUCH bigger than Nordic, and the views are really amazing. Much more residential than Nordic (no pool, gym, etc - just great townhouses). There's actually a unit for sale in our complex, too: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/43-Attitash-Woods-Rd-43-Bartlett-NH-03812/2105586407_zpid/ Nice. Too rich for my blood. We're focusing on single family rather than condo's. More upkeep, but what the hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Nice. Too rich for my blood. We're focusing on single family rather than condo's. More upkeep, but what the hey.You'll never be able to cut enough wood for two places! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncletim Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Radders, A lot of great info and advice here, but for what it's worth (from a first time poster), you'll be doing your search a disservice if you don't go check out Rangeley, ME. Long haul, but great snow, great retention, great skiing - Saddleback in the backyard, 'loaf is 45 minutes. 1500' lakes elevation means cool summers too. Town is small, but a real (lakefront) town with some "decent" restaurants. Cheap real estate prices, which admittedly means maybe not a great investment, but taxes can be quite low. Good summer and winter rental markets for houses. Beyond your 5 hr. limit, but your search criteria sound much like mine a few years ago and we ended up here from a lot farther, (after saying "it's too far")...just my 2¢. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneypitmike Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 You'll never be able to cut enough wood for two places! You've got that right. And, should it come to pass that we get a place, I will not be using my time there for that!! Radders, A lot of great info and advice here, but for what it's worth (from a first time poster), you'll be doing your search a disservice if you don't go check out Rangeley, ME. Long haul, but great snow, great retention, great skiing - Saddleback in the backyard, 'loaf is 45 minutes. 1500' lakes elevation means cool summers too. Town is small, but a real (lakefront) town with some "decent" restaurants. Cheap real estate prices, which admittedly means maybe not a great investment, but taxes can be quite low. Good summer and winter rental markets for houses. Beyond your 5 hr. limit, but your search criteria sound much like mine a few years ago and we ended up here from a lot farther, (after saying "it's too far")...just my 2¢. Good luck. Agree with you on all points regarding Rangeley. The area has a lot of four-season activity going for it. Check that--for most of New England, I really think we have 3 seasons of activity. Not much happens in spring--swatting black-flies is not much to excited about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radders Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Radders, A lot of great info and advice here, but for what it's worth (from a first time poster), you'll be doing your search a disservice if you don't go check out Rangeley, ME. Long haul, but great snow, great retention, great skiing - Saddleback in the backyard, 'loaf is 45 minutes. 1500' lakes elevation means cool summers too. Town is small, but a real (lakefront) town with some "decent" restaurants. Cheap real estate prices, which admittedly means maybe not a great investment, but taxes can be quite low. Good summer and winter rental markets for houses. Beyond your 5 hr. limit, but your search criteria sound much like mine a few years ago and we ended up here from a lot farther, (after saying "it's too far")...just my 2¢. Good luck. Thanks for your input. I will definitely do some further research. I know others have mentioned how solid the snow pack is in that area of Maine. I have not really explored Maine as a state so perhaps this will be a good excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Radders, A lot of great info and advice here, but for what it's worth (from a first time poster), you'll be doing your search a disservice if you don't go check out Rangeley, ME. Long haul, but great snow, great retention, great skiing - Saddleback in the backyard, 'loaf is 45 minutes. 1500' lakes elevation means cool summers too. Town is small, but a real (lakefront) town with some "decent" restaurants. Cheap real estate prices, which admittedly means maybe not a great investment, but taxes can be quite low. Good summer and winter rental markets for houses. Beyond your 5 hr. limit, but your search criteria sound much like mine a few years ago and we ended up here from a lot farther, (after saying "it's too far")...just my 2¢. Good luck. Welcome! And I hope to hear more from you, especially if you're in Rangeley in wintertime, as we get little or no direct info from there (or any of Maine's other big snow areas.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Radders, A lot of great info and advice here, but for what it's worth (from a first time poster), you'll be doing your search a disservice if you don't go check out Rangeley, ME. Long haul, but great snow, great retention, great skiing - Saddleback in the backyard, 'loaf is 45 minutes. 1500' lakes elevation means cool summers too. Town is small, but a real (lakefront) town with some "decent" restaurants. Cheap real estate prices, which admittedly means maybe not a great investment, but taxes can be quite low. Good summer and winter rental markets for houses. Beyond your 5 hr. limit, but your search criteria sound much like mine a few years ago and we ended up here from a lot farther, (after saying "it's too far")...just my 2¢. Good luck. Hidden gem that you have discovered, Its a great area for everything you mention, And a lot closer to Pittsburg as the crow flies............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borderwx Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I am sure this question has been asked before, but what are folks thoughts on the most ideal place in New England to have a small house in the woods (likely in the mountains) that is optimally positioned to cash in on major snowfall (most important part lol) , in or close to a nice town with good bars/restaurants, close to skiing and other amenities, is beautiful in the summer, convenient to get to from major interstate highways etc and isn't going to cost a small fortune!??? I always hear that the east slopes of the berkshires is a good option but curious to hear what people think.... I figured since the town atmosphere was an important criteria I didn't think he NEK would qualify. But, reading your willing to look, you should check out Newark/Sutton/Westmore area. Lots of snow, good retention, not to far off of 91, ski burke, VAST out your door. Lydonville, St.J, Glover, IP all within a short drive for better than you can imagine food and comfortable night life. I'll let others speak to the areas benefit during the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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