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Feb 11-12, 2012 Observations/Discussion/Nowcasting


NorEastermass128

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Take a look at 12z 30H...Euro vs 0z 18h on the NAM. I know this is a vague measure, but the .1" line looks pretty darn good. Euro had it Boston to Seekonk. NAM is very close. NAM actually is a touch lighter in the 3 hour period before, but makes up for it after.

Minor fluctuations. We'll see what the other guidance brings.

The peripheral snows are gone. It's that one band that comes off Hatteras and if it falls in the gridspace and is 10-25 miles east this could be a total cosmic dildo ™

I'm pretty confident the .1" lines up very well on the 12z Euro and 0z NAM. Unless the graphics I'm using are off, but it looks very similar. So for at least SE/E dwellars this isn't a catastrophe (unless NAM is still behind the times) it's just NCEP catching up to their suck.

I don't really think they are that similar...at least in the sense that we care about. NAM is really shunting things eastward and the Euro allows it to blossom back to the NW a bit.

Regardless, I don't think I'd really change my forecast at the moment based on a run of the NAM. We'll probably know by later tonight around 06z or 09z whether its right or not.

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Model consensus seemed to be about 0.1"-0.2" QPF back here. NAM has 0.00"

Think there was always going to be a real sharp gradient. There was only 1 3 hour period where about the corner 1/5 of CT was forecast to get .1" or better. Other than that.....

I see what you're saying the NAM definitely has a total screw zone on the other side of the band. And like I said until the Euro holds I'm losing faith here, but 2-4/3-6 would be what the NAM drops on my head, and Phil gets rocked pretty good.

Mother Nature got tired of hearng about all the snow in the GC and felt bad for Phil.

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I don't really think they are that similar...at least in the sense that we care about. NAM is really shunting things eastward and the Euro allows it to blossom back to the NW a bit.

Regardless, I don't think I'd really change my forecast at the moment based on a run of the NAM. We'll probably know by later tonight around 06z or 09z whether its right or not.

Like you said I wouldn't change a forecast either, but I'm pretty sure if you overlay the .1" 3 hour QPF lines on the 0z NAM and 12z Euro you'll see they match up incredibly well. Even the general shape is the same, what's different is the NAM really cropped the fluff NW of the serious band.

The normally bone dry RUC has measurable in areas the NAM doesn't...so the NAM probably has done some overcompensating again...I hope.

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Like you said I wouldn't change a forecast either, but I'm pretty sure if you overlay the .1" 3 hour QPF lines on the 0z NAM and 12z Euro you'll see they match up incredibly well. Even the general shape is the same, what's different is the NAM really cropped the fluff NW of the serious band.

The normally bone dry RUC has measurable in areas the NAM doesn't...so the NAM probably has done some overcompensating again...I hope.

It's gone against the SREFs as well as Euro so something must be wrong with it.

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It's gone against the SREFs as well as Euro so something must be wrong with it.

Well at first glance it really has no extension of the low NW...it's a consolidated low WAY SE. Could be right, we'll know soon. That's probably the minor transport mechanism that allowed the snow to propogate further back.

That said, even the .25" line matches well, the 12z 30h Euro v 0z 18h NAM.

Euro had it cutting around the canal, NAM is maybe even a hair west of that.

The .1 got trimmed maybe 5-10 miles but still roughly runs from Boston to SE CT.

Euro 33h had the .1" Boston to Fall River, NAM is about identical.

NAm actually is wetter on the Cape at that interval.

Like I said what seems to happen here...which I think we see as a common bias of the NAM at times is it's overconcentrating precip in the band maybe instead of spreading it out a bit. Other than that....

For the Cape and east coastal areas, status quo. What mainly vanished elsewhere was the cumulative few hundreths, .05 or just under .1"...and who knows that may be an error.

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Well at first glance it really has no extension of the low NW...it's a consolidated low WAY SE. Could be right, we'll know soon. That's probably the minor transport mechanism that allowed the snow to propogate further back.

That said, even the .25" line matches well, the 12z 30h Euro v 0z 18h NAM.

Euro had it cutting around the canal, NAM is maybe even a hair west of that.

The .1 got trimmed maybe 5-10 miles but still roughly runs from Boston to SE CT.

Euro 33h had the .1" Boston to Fall River, NAM is about identical.

NAm actually is wetter on the Cape at that interval.

Like I said what seems to happen here...which I think we see as a common bias of the NAM at times is it's overconcentrating precip in the band maybe instead of spreading it out a bit. Other than that....

For the Cape and east coastal areas, status quo. What mainly vanished elsewhere was the cumulative few hundreths, .05 or just under .1"...and who knows that may be an error.

we know its a bad sign when you have 10 posts comparing the 18z nam and 12z euro .1inch lines

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http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?product=N0R&rid=mhx&loop=yes

there's the burst of precip the GFS was keying on...heading over the inland waters of NC. 18z GFS muted that some, Euro didn't really have it. GFS tried to develop a low under it for a brief time.

Regardless even the new NAM...that's the precip shield that needs to grown an stretch as it moves up over eastern areas. In about 8 or 9 hours it's totally offshore, by 12 hours it's started to spread over eastern areas. It'll probably look like a total miss for several hours, but it should hopefully swing up and over eastern areas in the end.

Needle thread...will happen or it won't but it's the same theme as the Euro.

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Well at first glance it really has no extension of the low NW...it's a consolidated low WAY SE. Could be right, we'll know soon. That's probably the minor transport mechanism that allowed the snow to propogate further back.

That said, even the .25" line matches well, the 12z 30h Euro v 0z 18h NAM.

Euro had it cutting around the canal, NAM is maybe even a hair west of that.

The .1 got trimmed maybe 5-10 miles but still roughly runs from Boston to SE CT.

Euro 33h had the .1" Boston to Fall River, NAM is about identical.

NAm actually is wetter on the Cape at that interval.

Like I said what seems to happen here...which I think we see as a common bias of the NAM at times is it's overconcentrating precip in the band maybe instead of spreading it out a bit. Other than that....

For the Cape and east coastal areas, status quo. What mainly vanished elsewhere was the cumulative few hundreths, .05 or just under .1"...and who knows that may be an error.

00z Nam still throws 0.3" at me so still in line with my 3" low end and in line with BOX.

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we know its a bad sign when you have 10 posts comparing the 18z nam and 12z euro .1inch lines

If the situation was reversed I'd be hearing about how I was being negative. In this case, at least on this model, and I'm not saying it's right....there's almost no difference in sensible weather in SE MA and if the expectation was 2-5" which was the number most promoted by NOAA, TV, etc.

I realize it's changed elsewhere, but it's one model so far. It could well be that the Euro shoves everything east too, but the NAM was incapable of forecasting the snow we got the other night with a 6 hour lead.

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If the situation was reversed I'd be hearing about how I was being negative. In this case, at least on this model, and I'm not saying it's right....there's almost no difference in sensible weather in SE MA and if the expectation was 2-5" which was the number most promoted by NOAA, TV, etc.

I realize it's changed elsewhere, but it's one model so far. It could well be that the Euro shoves everything east too, but the NAM was incapable of forecasting the snow we got the other night with a 6 hour lead.

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If the situation was reversed I'd be hearing about how I was being negative. In this case, at least on this model, and I'm not saying it's right....there's almost no difference in sensible weather in SE MA and if the expectation was 2-5" which was the number most promoted by NOAA, TV, etc.

I realize it's changed elsewhere, but it's one model so far. It could well be that the Euro shoves everything east too, but the NAM was incapable of forecasting the snow we got the other night with a 6 hour lead.

I dont even know why they use the Nam anymore. I realize its a more detailed model, but it hasnt trumped the other lead models in quite awhile, often leading us off into some parallel reality, like yesterday 12z, for example, only to later come back to the back.. and now, at the last minute, reversing field yet again, this time giving most of us near nada. very frustrating!

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