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The feb 4-5 storm (Obs/Discussions)


Ji

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Either way, the nrn edge of the snow shield should have a relatively "decent" band of precip moving across the area, and then pushing off to the se. That's where the best mid level frontogenesis and deformation will be. Tough to say where it sets up, but where ever this does end up developing, I could see this as a band of enhanced echoes in a broad area of relatively weak echoes, right on the nrn edge of the snow shield.

Here's what I mean. Notice the area near nrn MD and srn PA. There is some decent mid level frontogenesis at 700mb, indicating by the convergence of vectors and also lift present. You can also see in the 850-500mb vv/rh chart of the little max area of deeper moisture over srn PA at 09z Sunday. This is a very weak signal, but I could almost envision an area of lighter echoes and a band of more enhanced echoes moving from wnw-ese over the area. Maybe MD or srn PA? I think placement is the question. Also, boundary layer issues may happen if the GFS is right, so higher elevations will have two advantages. Extra lift on ne flow and colder boundary layer.

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p009 will save us!

I haven't had access to the internet for the last two days. Had to drive to a funeral. Even now I'm on a PC without all my bookkmarks. Makes lloking at everything awkward. For us, I don't see accumulations as it looks like light precip and marginal boundary layers. If it's more I[ll look like a lazy bum to the CWG crowd as there was no way i could look at stuff until now and even now it wouuld be hard writing any article.

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I haven't had access to the internet for the last two days. Had to drive to a funeral. Even now I'm on a PC without all my bookkmarks. Makes lloking at everything awkward. For us, I don't see accumulations as it looks like light precip and marginal boundary layers. If it's more I[ll look like a lazy bum to the CWG crowd as there was no way i could look at stuff until now and even now it wouuld be hard writing any article.

I'm sure they'll live. Hope all is well.

My major inquiry assuming/if they are wrong is why the ensembles of the gfs have been so much more bullish.

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I'm sure they'll live. Hope all is well.

My major inquiry assuming/if they are wrong is why the ensembles of the gfs have been so much more bullish.

A good question. Case in point the 18z GFS ensemble mean... there is a large area of 0.25+ QPF over the area and the 0c 850 line is right over top of DC and moving south at hr 36. At hr 48, there 850s are -3ish and 0.10 QPF around the area.

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I'm sure they'll live. Hope all is well.

My major inquiry assuming/if they are wrong is why the ensembles of the gfs have been so much more bullish.

In general, it's not that surprising that they are so different. The current operational GEFS members are run at ~1/3 the resolution of the operational (i.e. very coarse), and even utilize a different (older) set of physical parameterizations. There is a resolution increase for the GEFS members scheduled to happen this month.

As to why they are more bullish for this particular event, I'd have to do some more digging as I haven't been paying that close attention.

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I don't think the models really have a clue yet...doesn't mean it will be in our favor, but the SREF and 18Z ENS mean are still much wetter than the OPS.....This is a tricky synoptic setup in a rapidly changing pattern with many moving pieces and involving a phase.....the northern stream s/w is still in Alberta....We have a general idea but the details are going to keep changing......

My WAG (not worth much) is whether or not the northern stream is more amplified or not the s/w is going to be quicker than progged.....this could mean an earlier/deeper phase and better storm (SREF/ENS)....or it could mean a progressive semi-whiff with no phase or 2-parts (Euro)...I think the 18z GFS solution is the least likely of the latest solutions

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In general, it's not that surprising that they are so different. The current operational GEFS members are run at ~1/3 the resolution of the operational (i.e. very coarse), and even utilize a different (older) set of physical parameterizations. There is a resolution increase for the GEFS members scheduled to happen this month.

As to why they are more bullish for this particular event, I'd have to do some more digging as I haven't been paying that close attention.

too busy working on Roseanne's election?

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I don't think the models really have a clue yet...doesn't mean it will be in our favor, but the SREF and 18Z ENS mean are still much wetter than the OPS.....This is a tricky synoptic setup in a rapidly changing pattern with many moving pieces and involving a phase.....the northern stream s/w is still in Alberta....We have a general idea but the details are going to keep changing......

My WAG (not worth much) is whether or not the northern stream is more amplified or not the s/w is going to be quicker than progged.....this could mean an earlier/deeper phase and better storm (SREF/ENS)....or it could mean a progressive semi-whiff with no phase or 2-parts (Euro)...I think the 18z GFS solution is the least likely of the latest solutions

Good post and i agree... this might be one of those systems that we might not get a firm grip till the 12z runs tomorrow...

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spot on zwyts. evolution in this case is near impossible to nail down until the interaction is fully resolved. i don't care how well a model is programmed. With this setup, tiny shifts can = very large downstream solutions.

Tomorrow is either going to be really fun or...........well, let's not even think about that......

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The synoptic setup is pretty interesting and uncommon I think....I think this event has very high bust potential in either direction, but probably more against us since we live in DC

If this event craps the bed, at least we have an interesting pattern over the next 10-15 days.....I think we will be doing a lot of model watching....hopefully something will pan out

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If this event craps the bed, at least we have an interesting pattern over the next 10-15 days.....I think we will be doing a lot of model watching....hopefully something will pan out

agreed, there was a lot of complaining when the models backed off the long range cold a few days ago, but the pattern still looks much better till about the 17th or so....not perfect, but having a chance is a lot better than what we have come out of.

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Looks like 6 of the 11 individ 18z GFS ensembles on Raleigh give around 2" of snow in DC. 2 are close (1" or so) and 3 are nothing or very little

I'm setting the sucess bar very low with this event....

I need to see:

Snow falling:

If no real stickage needs to be 0.5 mi viz at some point

or if just -SN needs to stick to cars, grass, etc....

non accumulating -SN will be nice to watch but will not meet the criteria for success

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