Chadwick Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Snowfall rate trumps everything else. The heaviest snow I was ever in occurred April 27 or 28 in Floyd County Va. in the late 70s. Long time ago and not exactly sure of the date. It had rained heavily over night and was still raining. We had just arrived at the HS school where I was teaching and was surprised to notice cars from the western end of the county with several inches of snow on them coming into the parking lot. As school started the change over occurred and it began to snow heavily. Even though the ground was wet and warm it covered completely in a few minutes. Puddles first turned to slush and then covered. The principal called NWS in Roanoke because the forecast was heavy rain but he was getting worried about bus travel. The met told him it could not be snowing because it was to warm. I won't repeat what he told the met. The met then said there must be a small pocket of cold air aloft and it would quickly change back to rain. An hour later we were dismissing school with 4 inches on the ground and snow pouring down. After the buses struggled out of the parking lot a Va HP car came into the lot to tell us not to dismiss because there was already 14" of snow in the western part of the county. The snow continued until just after noon and had deposited about a foot when it let up and the sun popped out. You could hear the water rushing down the gutters in the street. After 30 minutes it got very dark like just before a summer thunderstorm and then all hell broke loose. It poured snow with thunder and lightning every few minutes for several hours. I grew up in NW NJ and have never seen it snow like that. By 8pm we had over 30" in town even though it was still melting from the bottom. Reports of more in the higher western end of the county. Trees were leafed out and falling all over as the snow was extremely wet and sticky. Transformers flashing green as one after another they shorted out. I periodically went outside with a sedge hammer and whacked the trunks of my trees to relieve some of the weight from the banches. In those days the clocks weren't changed to DST until April so it seemed surreal to see it snowing on full leafed trees in daylight at 8pm. So that snow fought very wet warm ground, extremely high sun angle and marginal temps and still put down the heaviest accumulation in the shortest time I have ever seen. Little to no notice was taken of this event outside the county. Floyd is very rural and even today, 30+ years later, there is only one stop light in the entire county. Temps approached 80 the next two days and the snow disappeared almost as fast as it had fallen. We did miss two more days of school for mud. Lots of dirt roads were bus routes. I lived in Indian Valley for two years and heard this story told from people like it had happened last week. It definitely left an impression on everyone involved. One lof our friends was a bus driver that said he parked his bus at 10pm that night after finally dropping the last student off. Incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msuwx Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yep. Time of day was the biggest problem. Here's a look back to one of my favorite recent systems. http://www4.ncsu.edu/~nwsfo/storage/cases/20090302/ Yeah I was in GSP watching it snow and not accumulating. I guess being that it was in the middle of the day and marginal temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgertime Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yep. Time of day was the biggest problem. Here's a look back to one of my favorite recent systems. http://www4.ncsu.edu...cases/20090302/ That was a great storm. I remember walking down to the Penguin with some other friends who lived on Thomas Ave. and just watching how heavy the snow was falling. Thankfully everyone at the Penguin at the time lived in Plaza Midwood so it never closed. I then had to stumble back to my house with bags over my shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgertime Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Here is the radar from that event..as well as the obs from many posters still around today! http://www.easternuswx.com/bb/index.php?/topic/192588-southeast-observations-mar-1-2-snowstorm/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastonwxman Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yep. Time of day was the biggest problem. Here's a look back to one of my favorite recent systems. http://www4.ncsu.edu...cases/20090302/ A great storm indeed, and it was the first time I ever witnessed thundersnow. I remember waking up on the morning before the storm came and tuned into News14 with an update showing a significant increase in potential snow accumulation and thunder being mentioned, which surprised me quite a bit and was very excited to hear about such. Then that evening, as I was coming home from Charlotte, I noticed that it began to rain but only for a brief moment, for as soon as I had left the center city that it was suddenly sleeting on I-85 and as soon as I got off onto the exit to Bessemer City road, it was a quick mix of snow/sleet to all snow. About an hour or two later, the thunder rolled in and it was coming down like gangbusters and very vivid blue lightning flashes/strikes. One of the best winter nights I ever went through. Ended up with 9 inches in my yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griteater Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 A great storm indeed, and it was the first time I ever witnessed thundersnow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metwannabe Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Here is the radar from that event..as well as the obs from many posters still around today! http://www.easternus...-1-2-snowstorm/ Man that looks so good all I can say is........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bevo Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 March '10. Snowed for 13 hours straight at my place only to accumulate to a dusting.....and that was when it was really coming down. I knew we were in trouble with that one when I talked to my buddies in GSP....had been snowing heavily there for a while. Was anxiously awaiting the word of how much they had so far only to hear 'a little but on the roofs....nothing but wet ground.' Knew we were sunk at that point. Yeah I was in GSP watching it snow and not accumulating. I guess being that it was in the middle of the day and marginal temps. Yep - it could have been a sequel to March '09 had it been at night. That whole "Sun Angle" thing trickled out of the GSP office to explain it. I remember thinking that I had never seen so much snow fall...and not be seen on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wncsnow Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yep. Time of day was the biggest problem. Here's a look back to one of my favorite recent systems. http://www4.ncsu.edu...cases/20090302/ I live directly under the one inch on the map right along the Blue Ridge escarpment, and i can tell you we didnt even accumulate an inch here. It mixed back and forth from rain to snow all day and after the ULL traversed through downsloping dried up and pushed the heaviest bands east of here. Was the most frustrating, disappointing system i can ever remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG FROSTY Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Accuweather's long range guy (Paul) is no go on cold, A little colder next week, week 3 and 4 warming up again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 For those interested, here are the 17 MJO phases 8, 1, and 2 analyzed for KATL with temp.'s and S/IP (above avg. S/IP for each period bolded)(there was no sig. ZR) -1/19-2/8/75: warm, T -1/27-2/3/76*: norm, T -2/7-28/78*: cold, 0.3" -(1/20-30/83): cold, 1.9" -1/12-2/3/85: cold, 0.4" -2/21-3/16/88*: norm, 0.0" -(2/7-23/90): warm, 0.0" -1/13-2/2/92: norm, 5.0" -1/3-15/93*: warm, 0.0" -1/2-14/97: norm, T -(1/6-12/98): norm, 0.0" -2/16-24/99: norm, 0.4" -1/10-27/04*: norm, T or 0.0" -2/3-12/06: cold, T -1/16-24/09: cold, T -2/7-15/10: cold, 3.6" -1/24-28/11: norm, 0.0" * = strong MJO () = rather weak MJO but still outside circle If anyone else has enough interest and time to do this for his/her city, I'd love to see it posted. I just noticed that the three heaviest KATL S/IP's by far during these 17 MJO periods going through phases 8, 1, and 2 were all during El Nino's fwiw: 1/83's 1.9", 1/92's 5.0", and 2/10's 3.6". Also, four of the six El Nino's had measurable S/IP. In stark contrast, the eleven non-Nino's never had more than 0.4" and nine of the eleven non-Nino's had no measurable S/IP. So, that tells me that ENSO phase might very well be more of a factor than MJO phase as regards sig. S/IP chances. Aside: as I postulated earlier, the best shot at major ZR at KATL may be when the MJO is within the circle of death. All five major ATL ZR's since the mid 1970's occurred when the MJO was inside the circle. Also, neutral negative ENSO has been the most favorable for major KATL ZR for whatever reason going back to the late 1800's. So, the best bet for KATL major ZR may be when the MJO is weak and it is a neutral negative winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastonwxman Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Strange. I do remember seeing a few strikes around here. Not sure why the map doesn't show that. If I had a camera to record it with (which I didn't get until a month later ), I could have posted it on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msuwx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Wow some great (and some painful) memories from the storm shared. Great stuff. Something about winter storms just etches the details in your memory. I remember it absolutely poured rain all day. I was to be on air early the morning the event was ending, so had to get a hotel to ensure I could make it in the night it was unfolding. Rain kicked over to heavy sleet around 6, got the kids in bed and it had turned over to heavy snow during that time. I had almost waited too late to head to the hotel. Tricky drive. Think that was the first time for me to see thunder snow since March of 93. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msuwx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 There was definitely thunder snow around the CLT metro with that one. Strange. I do remember seeing a few strikes around here. Not sure why the map doesn't show that. If I had a camera to record it with (which I didn't get until a month later ), I could have posted it on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griteater Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Strange. I do remember seeing a few strikes around here. Not sure why the map doesn't show that. If I had a camera to record it with (which I didn't get until a month later ), I could have posted it on here. Yeah, that was just one snapshot of the lightning detection, so that doesn't capture all of it. We had one good lightning flash here with thunder as the precip was changing over to snow. Later heard rumbles off in the distance. I recall like msuwx that the storm was a prodigious rain producer both Saturday and Sunday prior to the Sun night changover to snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastonwxman Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yeah, that was just one snapshot of the lightning detection, so that doesn't capture all of it. We had one good lightning flash here with thunder as the precip was changing over to snow. Later heard rumbles off in the distance. I recall like msuwx that the storm was a prodigious rain producer both Saturday and Sunday prior to the Sun night changover to snow. Ah okay. That makes sense now. Thanks for the confirmation. I agree that it was quite the rainmaker around here. I almost questioned about that changeover for the entire day that Sunday but thankfully it was a successful process and we benefited greatly. That's how I like my winter endings: Going out with a bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhamwx205 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Accuweather's long range guy (Paul) is no go on cold, A little colder next week, week 3 and 4 warming up again... fist word in this statement sums it up........... should be wrongweather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msuwx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 That was a painful, stressful wait for the changeover. The timing of that can literally make or break the forecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmundie Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Nashville got the screw job on that storm. Our neighbors in Memphis got 6-8 with localized 12+ There was another ull in march 2008 where BNA measured 1.7 officially. At my house we had 4-5 (2 miles from the airport as the crow flies) and a location in OHX's area had 15 or 18. I did get thunder and lightning with that event. But the randomness of the accums was annoying. We basically had training lines of convective snow so it was feast or famine. Remembering all this stuff is just making the 60 degrees and thunderstorm worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaWx Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Thanks for the stats, Larry! I would love to see what they are for KCLT, and maybe if I had some actual free time to put towards a project like this I would, but maybe Burger would be interested in something like this. You're welcome. It would be interesting to see the temp.'s and S/IP for KCLT, Raleigh, or wherever. Someone could go to Univ. of Utah's website and get the high/low temp. and S/IP data from 1975-2011 for their city of interest and just look at the already determined 17 periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburns Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I lived in Indian Valley for two years and heard this story told from people like it had happened last week. It definitely left an impression on everyone involved. One lof our friends was a bus driver that said he parked his bus at 10pm that night after finally dropping the last student off. Incredible. Cool. I taught a class or two at Indian Valley School. During the storm people were going out with their 4WDs taking kids off the stuck buses and taking them home. It was one hell of a day but those mountain folk just did what they had to do and took it all in stride. Floyd has a unique climate. In January of 77 we went to school a total of 1 day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calculus1 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yep. Time of day was the biggest problem. Here's a look back to one of my favorite recent systems. http://www4.ncsu.edu...cases/20090302/ Matt, thanks for stopping by with your thoughts. I always appreciate your posts, but I lived in the worst possible place for that system. Here's the quote from the analysis: "A significant minimum in snow accumulation amounts was noted just east of the mountains where a considerable down slope flow and the associated subsidence resulted in reduced snow accumulations. " I had less than inch of snow from that event in Caldwell County at that time, while all around was 6+ inches. Just goes to show how much our backyard experiences influence our opinions of systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aanance Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Not trying to be Debbie Downer here but shouldnt a lot of this be religated to the General Banter? Also is this Weekend and Next Weekend Dead PType wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion_NC_WX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Not trying to be Debbie Downer here but shouldnt a lot of this be religated to the General Banter? Also is this Weekend and Next Weekend Dead PType wise? Yep...no winter storm chances through 10 days...the only thing maybe worth mentioning was the developing block in the Atlantic past Day 10 of the 18z GFS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhamwx205 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yep...no winter storm chances through 10 days...the only thing maybe worth mentioning was the developing block in the Atlantic past Day 10 of the 18z GFS... not sure that's a true statement .... anything outside of 5 days will change from run to run as we have seen over this winter. The 10th-15th looks interesting to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaffneyPeach Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Here is the radar from that event..as well as the obs from many posters still around today! http://www.easternus...-1-2-snowstorm/ Wow! Thanks, Burger. One of the best storms ever. I remember being gone all day and not getting home till late that night. I'm glad most of us are still together...but... I miss Apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilj4425 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 We can look at the models all we want but there is only one true force that will determine how the rest of this winter goes: The Groundhog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoothillsNC Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Matt, thanks for stopping by with your thoughts. I always appreciate your posts, but I lived in the worst possible place for that system. Here's the quote from the analysis: "A significant minimum in snow accumulation amounts was noted just east of the mountains where a considerable down slope flow and the associated subsidence resulted in reduced snow accumulations. " I had less than inch of snow from that event in Caldwell County at that time, while all around was 6+ inches. Just goes to show how much our backyard experiences influence our opinions of systems. fun storm for sure. Some places next to the escarpment right in extreme western SC and again just east of Asheville had issues in the 950 to 975 layer, which resulted in a warm bubble the duration of the event. I was far east to be just barely removed from that, and took a direct hit with vertical velocties and training. Heaviest snow accumulation rates I've ever witnessed in a storm (9" in 6.5 hours), and 2 consecutive hours of nearly non stop, low roar thunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion_NC_WX Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 fun storm for sure. Some places next to the escarpment right in extreme western SC and again just east of Asheville had issues in the 950 to 975 layer, which resulted in a warm bubble the duration of the event. I was far east to be just barely removed from that, and took a direct hit with vertical velocties and training. Heaviest snow accumulation rates I've ever witnessed in a storm (9" in 6.5 hours), and 2 consecutive hours of nearly non stop, low roar thunder. I can definitely verify that warm layer along the escarpment...pure misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCBlizzard Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 fun storm for sure. Some places next to the escarpment right in extreme western SC and again just east of Asheville had issues in the 950 to 975 layer, which resulted in a warm bubble the duration of the event. I was far east to be just barely removed from that, and took a direct hit with vertical velocties and training. Heaviest snow accumulation rates I've ever witnessed in a storm (9" in 6.5 hours), and 2 consecutive hours of nearly non stop, low roar thunder. One heck of a storm here. I vividly remember it being all rain and in the blink of an eye changing to very heavy wet snow. Several trees went down, I remember watching my neighbors tree completely split in the middle of the storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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