September 2011

[moneypitmike]

Embrace it like MRG embraces his hair detangler spray

[moneypitmike]

Looks good--especially if we can bust on the highs again tomorrow.

WESTERN FRANKLIN MA-

INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...ASHFIELD...CHARLEMONT...COLRAIN...

SHELBURNE

415 PM EDT SAT SEP 3 2011

.TONIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY THIS EVENING...THEN BECOMING PARTLY

CLOUDY. ISOLATED SHOWERS AND THUNDERSTORMS. PATCHY FOG AFTER

MIDNIGHT. LOWS IN THE MID 60S. WEST WINDS AROUND 5 MPH. CHANCE OF

RAIN 20 PERCENT.

.SUNDAY...PARTLY SUNNY WITH A CHANCE OF SHOWERS AND

THUNDERSTORMS. PATCHY FOG IN THE MORNING. HUMID WITH HIGHS IN THE

LOWER 80S. SOUTHWEST WINDS AROUND 5 MPH...BECOMING SOUTH WITH

GUSTS UP TO 20 MPH IN THE AFTERNOON. CHANCE OF RAIN 40 PERCENT.

.SUNDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY. A CHANCE OF SHOWERS AND

THUNDERSTORMS IN THE EVENING...THEN A CHANCE OF SHOWERS AFTER

MIDNIGHT. PATCHY FOG. HUMID WITH LOWS IN THE MID 60S. SOUTH WINDS

5 TO 10 MPH. CHANCE OF RAIN 50 PERCENT.

.LABOR DAY...SHOWERS LIKELY WITH A CHANCE OF THUNDERSTORMS.

PATCHY FOG. HUMID WITH HIGHS IN THE MID 70S. SOUTH WINDS 5 TO

10 MPH. GUSTS UP TO 20 MPH IN THE AFTERNOON. CHANCE OF RAIN

60 PERCENT.

.MONDAY NIGHT...SHOWERS LIKELY WITH A CHANCE OF THUNDERSTORMS.

PATCHY FOG. LOWS IN THE LOWER 60S. SOUTH WINDS 5 TO 10 MPH.

CHANCE OF RAIN 60 PERCENT.

.TUESDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A 50 PERCENT CHANCE OF SHOWERS.

HIGHS IN THE UPPER 60S.

.TUESDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLOUDY. PATCHY FOG. LOWS IN THE MID 50S.

.WEDNESDAY...CLOUDY WITH A 30 PERCENT CHANCE OF SHOWERS. PATCHY

FOG. HIGHS IN THE MID 60S.

.WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND THURSDAY...CLOUDY WITH A 40 PERCENT CHANCE

OF SHOWERS. LOWS IN THE MID 50S. HIGHS IN THE MID 60S.

.THURSDAY NIGHT AND FRIDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY. LOWS IN THE MID 50S.

HIGHS IN THE LOWER 70S.

.FRIDAY NIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY. LOWS IN THE LOWER 50S.

.SATURDAY...SUNNY. HIGHS IN THE LOWER 70S.

[WeatherX]

Embrace it like MRG embraces his hair detangler spray

It's fun now for you.

When do switch and go cold?

[HoarfrostHubb]

Does Blizzerfly go through his metamorphosis soon?

[Damage In Tolland]

It's fun now for you.

When do switch and go cold?

Sept. is not a cool wx month. It's a summer month. No need for cool now. October I'll be ready

[Damage In Tolland]

Dew is now 71. YES!!!

[moneypitmike]

Dew is now 71. YES!!!

73 here. Enjoying afternoon coffee on the deck.

[ski MRG]

73 here. Enjoying afternoon coffee on the deck.

73/68, a high of 74, looks like you were very close with your call for a high of 75. Can't drink coffee past noon anymore unless I want to be awake all night.lol Miss the after dinner dessert and coffee.

[ski MRG]

Sept. is not a cool wx month. It's a summer month. No need for cool now. October I'll be ready

A summer month featuring temps into the 20's and the abrupt end of the growing season. A summer month that people close up the pool, take the ac units out, pull out the cold weather gear and get the heating system up and running. Yup, summer in New England.

[Logan11]

Nope..... Knox, NY hit 80.2F and it got muggy with the hazy sunshine. I'm always straight with my temps..... NWS updated 11 AM forecast ended up verifying.

84 here. No doubt low 70's will do it for West Chesterfield and Shelburne as well as Knox,NY.

[Logan11]

Hmm an age thing? LOL I sleep like a baby yet within about 10 mins of hitting the bed even in the most adverse conditions or noise situations, etc.

My 72 year old mother has insomnia probs.....

73/68, a high of 74, looks like you were very close with your call for a high of 75. Can't drink coffee past noon anymore unless I want to be awake all night.lol Miss the after dinner dessert and coffee.

[powderfreak]

I wasn't speaking of the departures though. More just the fact that a place of similar elevation can have higher averages/temps because of urbanization. As MPM has pointed out, while yes many places on earth did see a sizzling summer, we did not. I really don't have much more than a passing interest in the weather for other regions. I'm always interested when noteworthy weather happens anywhere but truly I'm most interested in the weather's immediate impact on me, my business, recreation, etc. I know this is very provincial but true nonetheless. So, when I say it hasn't been a sizzler I speak for mby. 2 days of 90 in July, 2 days of 80 in August, at the very least unremarkable even if a meager + departure.

There's definitely a disconnect with those who use departures to classify "warm" vs "cold" and those that just use the real feel. I mean 40s in January still feels "cool" but its a torch.

I always use the departures because that's the only way you can compare places of different elevations and climates. If every site in New England has a positive departure for a month, there's no way it can be a "cool" month just because you didn't hit 85F or something. I mean, how can I compare Mansfield's summit with Burlington or something like that? Departures from normal is the only way.

Today was a +10F here... overnight low normal is 52F, this morning only got down to 62F. That's a good way to get a positive departure before you even start the day, regardless of the high. But we hit 82F up here today, another 8-10F above normal.

That's a torch... and I don't spin the weather. I'm sure everyone had a positive departure today.

[powderfreak]

I'm in Rindge, NH at 1300' and we're torching here...easily low 80s. AFN up to 80F, and some of the mesonets are warmer though I don't know if they have a proper solar shield. 850s are near +20C, Pete, of course it's warm out. We have a heat ridge advecting in from the OH Valley.

I like having your obs up there at 1,300ft. You're definitely like me, not always cheering cold or warm. And now you are in a "cold spot," if you say its warm, it probably is, lol.

Even Mansfield summit co-op torched today to 67! 67 degrees might feel "cool" but that is an absolute torch for that location.

[HoarfrostHubb]

I like having your obs up there at 1,300ft. You're definitely like me, not always cheering cold or warm. And now you are in a "cold spot," if you say its warm, it probably is, lol.

Even Mansfield summit co-op torched today to 67! 67 degrees might feel "cool" but that is an absolute torch for that location.

He was warmer than me today, 300' lower and 2 dozen miles south... not sure I understand why...

Humidity today was/is gross.

[powderfreak]

He was warmer than me today, 300' lower and 2 dozen miles south... not sure I understand why...

Humidity today was/is gross.

We were low 80s up here as high as 1,500ft at the base of the ski resort. Again, how much forest you have around you and all these other factors come into play. At the ski area our Mountain Ops building and thermometer doesn't have trees within 100 feet of the thing. In the forest it was probably mid-upper 70s.

Not one reading is right or wrong, but with PWS there's going to be variations.

[CT Rain]

How cool are these outflow boundaries from the storms that delayed the Notre Dame game

[HoarfrostHubb]

We were low 80s up here as high as 1,500ft at the base of the ski resort. Again, how much forest you have around you and all these other factors come into play. At the ski area our Mountain Ops building and thermometer doesn't have trees within 100 feet of the thing. In the forest it was probably mid-upper 70s.

Not one reading is right or wrong, but with PWS there's going to be variations.

Yeah, makes sense. The meso-site near me and my own location are very woodsy. Not sure what he used for his own site, but there is an airport (Silver Ranch) in Jaffrey...KAFN that hit 82.0 today, while I got to 79... tds were close... 70 there, 71 here

just filthy.

[moneypitmike]

How cool are these outflow boundaries from the storms that delayed the Notre Dame game

A lot cooler than the ND game itself. Boy, are they sucking today. Maybe the delay will allow them to play.

[HoarfrostHubb]

How cool are these outflow boundaries from the storms that delayed the Notre Dame game

What are they moving like that?

[CapturedNature]

It feels like a warm evening out there with the dews in the upper 60s here. I thought it was kind of interesting looking at the Meso map with the difference between the valley's and the hills across the region but Ryan's radar looks even more interesting.

[snowman21]

Yeah, makes sense. The meso-site near me and my own location are very woodsy. Not sure what he used for his own site, but there is an airport (Silver Ranch) in Jaffrey...KAFN that hit 82.0 today, while I got to 79... tds were close... 70 there, 71 here

just filthy.

I was going to post something about this earlier. Temperatures are supposed to measure the free atmosphere; not the air cooled by the canopy of nearby woods. It would be like me placing my thermometer near my clothes dryer vent and saying I live in a torch spot. These are both examples of bias introduced as a consequence of improper instrument siting. It's why the WMO has published guidelines for how temperature should be measured (at it's core the specification is to maximize exposure to the sun and distance from trees and other structures). Otherwise you're comparing apples to oranges. You might as well be comparing temperatures measured in Fahrenheit versus Celsius. The dry adiabatic lapse rate is 5.5F/1000 ft, yet temperatures from the east slope would often imply lapse rates much greater than this, so at some point you have to be suspicious of how the temperature is being measured or rewrite the laws of physics. Now I know some only care about what's happening in their backyard, and that's fine, but they should not be disillusioned into thinking that the temperature they measure is representative of anything beyond their patch of grass. Anyone can move their temperature up or down 10 degrees depending on where they put their thermometer in their yard and claim it's because of some unique microclimate. Is my backyard a microclimate because it has a much lower average temperature in the summer and hangs on to snow cover longer in the winter compared to my front yard? I can thank the trees and their shade for that, though another Irene and my backyard microclimate may not last much longer.

[HoarfrostHubb]

I was going to post something about this earlier. Temperatures are supposed to measure the free atmosphere; not the air cooled by the canopy of nearby woods. It would be like me placing my thermometer near my clothes dryer vent and saying I live in a torch spot. These are both examples of bias introduced as a consequence of improper instrument siting. It's why the WMO has published guidelines for how temperature should be measured (at it's core the specification is to maximize exposure to the sun and distance from trees and other structures). Otherwise you're comparing apples to oranges. You might as well be comparing temperatures measured in Fahrenheit versus Celsius. The dry adiabatic lapse rate is 5.5F/1000 ft, yet temperatures from the east slope would often imply lapse rates much greater than this, so at some point you have to be suspicious of how the temperature is being measured or rewrite the laws of physics. Now I know some only care about what's happening in their backyard, and that's fine, but they should not be disillusioned into thinking that the temperature they measure is representative of anything beyond their patch of grass. Anyone can move their temperature up or down 10 degrees depending on where they put their thermometer in their yard and claim it's because of some unique microclimate. Is my backyard a microclimate because it has a much lower average temperature in the summer and hangs on to snow cover longer in the winter compared to my front yard?

Naw... I understand what you are saying. I only report what is IMBY and make no claims beyond it. Still, knowing where some of the locations are (like KAFN for example), and the region in general, it is neat to see the differences.

I probably won't be cutting down all of the trees on my 3 acres and setting the station x feet away, etc. I just like to report what I see. I would never claim that there is something weird going on.

I wonder how much it affects really cold readings (like below 0F, etc). The woods don't offer much help then, and my thermometer is not under the shade of trees.

Hella humid my friend! I wish you could come up to a GTG sometime

[HoarfrostHubb]

And what happened in your yard during Irene? Trees down or flooding or both?

[snowman21]

And what happened in your yard during Irene? Trees down or flooding or both?

Both. Though the oldest and largest trees weathered the storm pretty well which I worry about any time winds reach 50 mph. I'm right along Long Island Sound, but I have a bit of elevation above the water line to the tune of 20 feet, so it would take a pretty massive surge to push water into my place, but Long Island Sound was flowing through the streets. Nothing too terrible, and I can't complain considering what many others have endured.

[powderfreak]

I was going to post something about this earlier. Temperatures are supposed to measure the free atmosphere; not the air cooled by the canopy of nearby woods. It would be like me placing my thermometer near my clothes dryer vent and saying I live in a torch spot. These are both examples of bias introduced as a consequence of improper instrument siting. It's why the WMO has published guidelines for how temperature should be measured (at it's core the specification is to maximize exposure to the sun and distance from trees and other structures). Otherwise you're comparing apples to oranges. You might as well be comparing temperatures measured in Fahrenheit versus Celsius. The dry adiabatic lapse rate is 5.5F/1000 ft, yet temperatures from the east slope would often imply lapse rates much greater than this, so at some point you have to be suspicious of how the temperature is being measured or rewrite the laws of physics. Now I know some only care about what's happening in their backyard, and that's fine, but they should not be disillusioned into thinking that the temperature they measure is representative of anything beyond their patch of grass. Anyone can move their temperature up or down 10 degrees depending on where they put their thermometer in their yard and claim it's because of some unique microclimate. Is my backyard a microclimate because it has a much lower average temperature in the summer and hangs on to snow cover longer in the winter compared to my front yard? I can thank the trees and their shade for that, though another Irene and my backyard microclimate may not last much longer.

This is what I compare most of the time... you can tell something is amiss when you start seeing 7-8F/1000ft showing up between PWS observations. It just isn't physically possible. I do this all winter long at the mountain to make sure our instruments are working properly. You can't have 20F at 4,000ft and then 29F at the mid-mountain pump house at 3,000ft, followed by 32F at 1,500ft. That 29F reading is wrong somehow, so its time to do some calibration or relocation.

[CapturedNature]

This is what I compare most of the time... you can tell something is amiss when you start seeing 7-8F/1000ft showing up between PWS observations. It just isn't physically possible. I do this all winter long at the mountain to make sure our instruments are working properly. You can't have 20F at 4,000ft and then 29F at the mid-mountain pump house at 3,000ft, followed by 32F at 1,500ft. That 29F reading is wrong somehow, so its time to do some calibration or relocation.

I do comparisons myself with an NBS certified thermometer on a day/time when everything should be equal. I have a problematic site in that I am at a low point with a high hill to my west that the sun goes behind in the afternoon so I miss out on some afternoon heating. It's at those times that I probably don't match the proper lapse rate. It would be tough meeting the WMOs standards everywhere and that is evident based on the number of first level stations that don't meet the criteria.

I would think that you would have the same problem I have at Mt Mansfield in that when the sun starts going down the westward slopes would be warmer than the eastward slopes, no? Wouldn't there be a problem lining up temperatures at equal elevations on both sides? The temps would be accurate, but they just wouldn't line up, no?

[weatherMA]

74/70 at 9:40

Good thing the A/C's are still in...hopefully the last few nights of use the next few nights.

[powderfreak]

I do comparisons myself with an NBS certified thermometer on a day/time when everything should be equal. I have a problematic site in that I am at a low point with a high hill to my west that the sun goes behind in the afternoon so I miss out on some afternoon heating. It's at those times that I probably don't match the proper lapse rate. It would be tough meeting the WMOs standards everywhere and that is evident based on the number of first level stations that don't meet the criteria.

I would think that you would have the same problem I have at Mt Mansfield in that when the sun starts going down the westward slopes would be warmer than the eastward slopes, no? Wouldn't there be a problem lining up temperatures at equal elevations on both sides? The temps would be accurate, but they just wouldn't line up, no?

Correct... but we only occupy the eastern slope of Mansfield. However, Spruce Peak further east gets a lot of afternoon sun (a lot longer in the day) so the temps on that mountain are often warmer at equal elevations than Mansfield come mid/late afternoon. I like to compare them around noontime when everything should be as close to similar as possible. With that said, our snowmaking system is such that we can log-in and get temp/dew/RH/wetbulb data almost every 100 vertical feet down the mountain (on the new snowmaking towers). The old infrastructure has that data every 500ft and in some cases its only every 1,000 ft. The newer systems are nice because each gun has a sensor so you can adjust water/pressure to get the best product. When we look for bunk sensors/thermometers, we often compare them by trail as most trails have a similar aspect (head a same direction) and drop at a pretty steady rate in elevation. You can generally tell just by looking at the map of sensors which ones are wrong... just like you can by looking at the PWS websites. I've found that during the day, in the winter, the temperatures are pretty uniform by elevation... the sun angle is low enough that it doesn't really make that much of a difference in Dec/Jan and there are no leaves (obviously) so its pretty easy to spot the sensors that are malfunctioning by using the lapse rate (wet or dry depending on the day).

[Logan11]

That's a nice little hike up Spruce Peak from the notch. I may do that again this Fall....not sure I'm in shape to do Mansfield from the notch right now. LOL I did that in the past...

Correct... but we only occupy the eastern slope of Mansfield. However, Spruce Peak further east gets a lot of afternoon sun (a lot longer in the day) so the temps on that mountain are often warmer at equal elevations than Mansfield come mid/late afternoon. I like to compare them around noontime when everything should be as close to similar as possible. With that said, our snowmaking system is such that we can log-in and get temp/dew/RH/wetbulb data almost every 100 vertical feet down the mountain (on the new snowmaking towers). The old infrastructure has that data every 500ft and in some cases its only every 1,000 ft. The newer systems are nice because each gun has a sensor so you can adjust water/pressure to get the best product. When we look for bunk sensors/thermometers, we often compare them by trail as most trails have a similar aspect (head a same direction) and drop at a pretty steady rate in elevation. You can generally tell just by looking at the map of sensors which ones are wrong... just like you can by looking at the PWS websites. I've found that during the day, in the winter, the temperatures are pretty uniform by elevation... the sun angle is low enough that it doesn't really make that much of a difference in Dec/Jan and there are no leaves (obviously) so its pretty easy to spot the sensors that are malfunctioning by using the lapse rate (wet or dry depending on the day).

[CapturedNature]

Correct... but we only occupy the eastern slope of Mansfield. However, Spruce Peak further east gets a lot of afternoon sun (a lot longer in the day) so the temps on that mountain are often warmer at equal elevations than Mansfield come mid/late afternoon. I like to compare them around noontime when everything should be as close to similar as possible. With that said, our snowmaking system is such that we can log-in and get temp/dew/RH/wetbulb data almost every 100 vertical feet down the mountain (on the new snowmaking towers). The old infrastructure has that data every 500ft and in some cases its only every 1,000 ft.

Sounds like a pretty sweet setup. I'm a maple syrup producer and I wish I had that kind of setup. I have bushes down in the valley, here in Stafford and one town over from me over 1,000'. It's that one that gives me the most problems because it too does not get a lot of afternoon sun and it slopes toward the north so I might have a great run in the valley, a little here and nothing there but I still have to check. I've installed some remote thermometers and am working on reliable way to maintain an Internet connection so I can know what the temperatures are in the woods. I wish I had your type of resolution, but I can have sensors about 300' from the base unit and that's it. Better than nothing I guess! I'm working on one option to setup a camera so I can physically see if there is sap to collect or not. Since I have to install them in the fall, I can use them to see what the weather is all winter which is a bonus.