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Its cold enough when do we snow?


Ginx snewx

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We all discussed last nite that this setup/blocking is not going to allow a storm to cut to the lakes..without a strong secondary refelection at the very least. Did everyone forget that disco already? It's a snow to ice or all snow scenario

We can see a cutter with an east based -NAO...I think I posted about it as the 3rd post in Tip's thread. With a bit of a PAC ridge forming and the fact that we still do have a -NAO (even if east based) will help favor redevelopment, but there's room for amplification too far west if the s/w is too strong.

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We all discussed last nite that this setup/blocking is not going to allow a storm to cut to the lakes..without a strong secondary refelection at the very least. Did everyone forget that disco already? It's a snow to ice or all snow scenario

Only if the blocking is there. The Euro wants to lift that out.

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LOL, I said if it's right.

just pointing out two different takes thats all, seems like the clipper is key. i think the truth is somewhere in the middle.........clipper a little stronger, inland get a nice snow and ice storm while the coastal plain goes snow to rain.

climo

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We can see a cutter with an east based -NAO...I think I posted about it as the 3rd post in Tip's thread. With a bit of a PAC ridge forming and the fact that we still do have a -NAO (even if east based) will help favor redevelopment, but there's room for amplification too far west if the s/w is too strong.

That is the key right there

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We can see a cutter with an east based -NAO...I think I posted about it as the 3rd post in Tip's thread. With a bit of a PAC ridge forming and the fact that we still do have a -NAO (even if east based) will help favor redevelopment, but there's room for amplification too far west if the s/w is too strong.

could the euro be making that sw out west too strong, perhaps it will be weaker and a bit quicker and the phase will happen further east?

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I'm sure Will and Scott have rescued you from the brink but please .... this is not a bad run at all with this 12z Euro - in fact, and I just explained this to Ray in the other, considering the last 3 cycles as a while it is perfectly what you want the trend to be.... I understand you are hungry and that makes patients a commodity in this, but you can't look at these runs as snap shot -woe is me-isms. I suspect folks were thinking they would open this run and find a 5 contoured historical juggernaut parked 20 mi ESE of ISP for 2.5 days with a 1055mb polar high 100 mile NNW of CAR - let's be realistic.

It is farther S/E with the depth of the core trough heights than the previous run, and is very close to driving the whole thing under LI. Also, this is still beyond the ECM wheelhouse... All told this should be an encouraging run. It's all intensifying in the trend too - geez that's almost historic on this run.

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It also depends on the PV near Hudson Bay. Any little spoke or lobe of vorticity that pinwheels se, will also have a say in where it tracks.

It's funny.....I understood that what was of paramount importance was to see the clipper dig more, and when we indeed saw that trend come to frution on the 12z EURO, my initial elation was quelled by short sightedness because it didn't result in a NE HECS on that particular run.

I lost sight of the that importance of that trend because that particular soloution ended undesirably.....tough to fend off knee-jerk reactions when anticipation tuns rampant.

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I'm sure Will and Scott have rescued you from the brink but please .... this is not a bad run at all with this 12z Euro - in fact, and I just explained this to Ray in the other, considering the last 3 cycles as a while it is perfectly what you want the trend to be.... I understand you are hungry and that makes patients a commodity in this, but you can't look at these runs as snap shot -woe is me-isms. I suspect folks were thinking they would open this run and find a 5 contoured historical juggernaut parked 20 mi ESE of ISP for 2.5 days with a 1055mb polar high 100 mile NNW of CAR - let's be realistic.

It is farther S/E with the depth of the core trough heights than the previous run, and is very close to driving the whole thing under LI. Also, this is still beyond the ECM wheelhouse... All told this should be an encouraging run. It's all intensifying in the trend too - geez that's almost historic on this run.

Right....thanks.

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Your HPC Fix.

HPC

12Z GUIDANCE RUNS OF GFS/CMC/UKMET OFFER THREE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT

SOLUTIONS AND REINFORCE THE UNCERTAINTY OF PREVIOUS RUNS. UKMET

HAS VERY SIGNIFICANT MID LEVEL STREAM SEPERATION AT DAY 6 SAT MORE

SO THAN ANY OTHER MODEL OR PRIOR RUN IN THE SRN PLAINS WITH AN

UPSTREAM STRONG DIGGING UPPER LEVEL JET THAT WOULD IMPLY A MORE

N-NEWD MOVEMENT TAKING THE LOW WEST OF THE APPLACHNS AFTER DAY 7

SUN. CMC HAS ALSO GONE MUCH CLOSER TO THE 00Z ECMWF SOLUTION OF A

STRONG CENTRAL CONUS STORM LATE PERIOD AND EARLY NEXT WEEK AS HAS

12Z NAVY NOGAPS. MOST CONSISTENT IS THE GFS WHICH HAS A WEAKER

FLATTER DIGGING SHORTWAVE THAN ITS PRIOR RUN BUT REMAINS

REASONABLY CLOSE TO ITS 00Z AND 06Z SOLUTION AND ECMWF WHICH

CONTINUES ITS SOLUTION FROM 00Z.

A MINOR SFC PROG MADE ADJUSTMENT CLOSER TO THE 00Z ECMWF ENS MEAN

AND LASTEST 12Z GFS WITH A REFORMING COASTAL LOW OFF VA CAPES LATE

SUNDAY. THIS CONTINUES THE LOW CONFIDENCE AND UNCERTAINTY WITH THE

SHORTWAVE AMPLITUDE AND INTENSITY ALONG WITH THE SFC LOW TRACK

DAYS 7-8 SUN/MON. CONSENSUS OF MODEL RUNS AT 12Z IS WEST OF THE

APPLACHNS AND A WESTWARD ADJUSTMENT MAY BE NEEDED TOMORROW.

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Your HPC Fix.

HPC

12Z GUIDANCE RUNS OF GFS/CMC/UKMET OFFER THREE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT

SOLUTIONS AND REINFORCE THE UNCERTAINTY OF PREVIOUS RUNS. UKMET

HAS VERY SIGNIFICANT MID LEVEL STREAM SEPERATION AT DAY 6 SAT MORE

SO THAN ANY OTHER MODEL OR PRIOR RUN IN THE SRN PLAINS WITH AN

UPSTREAM STRONG DIGGING UPPER LEVEL JET THAT WOULD IMPLY A MORE

N-NEWD MOVEMENT TAKING THE LOW WEST OF THE APPLACHNS AFTER DAY 7

SUN. CMC HAS ALSO GONE MUCH CLOSER TO THE 00Z ECMWF SOLUTION OF A

STRONG CENTRAL CONUS STORM LATE PERIOD AND EARLY NEXT WEEK AS HAS

12Z NAVY NOGAPS. MOST CONSISTENT IS THE GFS WHICH HAS A WEAKER

FLATTER DIGGING SHORTWAVE THAN ITS PRIOR RUN BUT REMAINS

REASONABLY CLOSE TO ITS 00Z AND 06Z SOLUTION AND ECMWF WHICH

CONTINUES ITS SOLUTION FROM 00Z.

A MINOR SFC PROG MADE ADJUSTMENT CLOSER TO THE 00Z ECMWF ENS MEAN

AND LASTEST 12Z GFS WITH A REFORMING COASTAL LOW OFF VA CAPES LATE

SUNDAY. THIS CONTINUES THE LOW CONFIDENCE AND UNCERTAINTY WITH THE

SHORTWAVE AMPLITUDE AND INTENSITY ALONG WITH THE SFC LOW TRACK

DAYS 7-8 SUN/MON. CONSENSUS OF MODEL RUNS AT 12Z IS WEST OF THE

APPLACHNS AND A WESTWARD ADJUSTMENT MAY BE NEEDED TOMORROW.

LOL they state the ens mean is off the VA capes..yet then dry hump the 12z Euro op

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LOL they state the ens mean is off the VA capes..yet then dry hump the 12z Euro op

I'm not sure what they are even talking about ... There are really two systems in the discussion: one is late middle range, but the 2nd one - the bigger player - is not even in their purview for discussion timing wise, so I'm a bit confused there.

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I'm not sure what they are even talking about ... There are really two systems in the discussion: one is late middle range, but the 2nd one - the bigger player - is not even in their purview for discussion timing wise, so I'm a bit confused there.

And 12z model consensus isn't west of the Apps. Only the Euro was with a track from Ohio to ALB

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And 12z model consensus isn't west of the Apps. Only the Euro was with a track from Ohio to ALB

yeah, this sounds like a turd discussion by a staff in a hurry to do something else/distracted... I just read it and they are factually incorrect, period - no discussion.

Normally I am impressed with NCEP's middle range office so they've earned a turd or two, but honestly I wouldn't be too concerned with that discussion this time.

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HEre's what we should be looking at

LOW PRESSURE COMING EWD ALONG

THE 49TH PARALLEL WED TO FRI WILL SPREAD A FAIRLY WIDE AREA OF

LIGHT SNOW ACROSS ND INTO MN AND THE GREAT LAKES REGION INTO

FRIDAY. THIS SYSTEM WILL THE REFORM OFF THE NEW ENG COAST WITH

SNOW POTENTIAL OVER COASTAL NEW ENG SAT

Exactly, and I spoke of this with Will and Scott in that other thread - we should actually be focusing on this system for the time being.

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