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JAN 20th-22nd potential..


NaoPos

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850's are really cold on this run. It would be high ratio snows if verified.

It's interesting how much colder the GFS is than the ECM, probably due to the system being much less phased. GFS has 2-4" of powder for the City with 850s around -10C, while the ECM changes everyone over to sleet with perhaps a little rain mixed in.

I am pretty excited about how much snow pack we may accumulate this winter. The woods behind my house have about 15" on the ground at 400' elevation, I doubt we'll lose too much Tuesday, and then the potential exists for another major Nor'easter. I've lived in Westchester all my life, and I can remember very few winters that had such extensive snow pack or snow falling on top of snow on top of snow. The current pack includes snow from the Boxing Day event, the Norlun trough, and the Miller B storm Wednesday. There looks to be another shortwave dropping into Montana at Day 8 on the GFS which could lead to a snowfall from a clipper/Miller B a few days after the Friday event that is now being discussed.

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I doubt we're going to be in a suppressed pattern and have nothing going on. We have too many positives lining up including the MJO and PNA/AO. With the NAO in a neutral to positive state, that strongly argues against suppression. I'm thinking we get another big Miller B this month despite what some of the models say right now.

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I doubt we're going to be in a suppressed pattern and have nothing going on. We have too many positives lining up including the MJO and PNA/AO. With the NAO in a neutral to positive state, that strongly argues against suppression. I'm thinking we get another big Miller B this month despite what some of the models say right now.

Where is the NAO in a neutral to positive state at this time?

HIGHER CONFIDENCE IN THE PATTERN BY NEXT WEEKEND AS INDICATED BYTELECONNECTIONS/FORECAST MJO INDEX ENTERING PHASE 7 AND 8/POSITIVE PNA AND NEG AO/NAO PATTERNS AND GOOD OPERATIONAL ANDENSEMBLE AGREEMENT YIELDING A MILD WRN CONUS AND FRIGID EAST.WIDESPREAD AREAS OF SINGLE DIGIT AND BELOW ZERO LOW TEMPERATURESCAN BE EXPECTED OVER THE NORTHEASTERN QUARTER OF CONUS NEXTWEEKEND. ROSENSTEIN

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Where is the NAO in a neutral to positive state at this time?

HIGHER CONFIDENCE IN THE PATTERN BY NEXT WEEKEND AS INDICATED BYTELECONNECTIONS/FORECAST MJO INDEX ENTERING PHASE 7 AND 8/POSITIVE PNA AND NEG AO/NAO PATTERNS AND GOOD OPERATIONAL ANDENSEMBLE AGREEMENT YIELDING A MILD WRN CONUS AND FRIGID EAST.WIDESPREAD AREAS OF SINGLE DIGIT AND BELOW ZERO LOW TEMPERATURESCAN BE EXPECTED OVER THE NORTHEASTERN QUARTER OF CONUS NEXTWEEKEND. ROSENSTEIN

I think he means preceding the storm, which may allow the shortwave to get tugged further north. The NAO starts to tank in the Day 7-10 period on many of the models. Here is the CPC chart:

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Where is the NAO in a neutral to positive state at this time?

HIGHER CONFIDENCE IN THE PATTERN BY NEXT WEEKEND AS INDICATED BYTELECONNECTIONS/FORECAST MJO INDEX ENTERING PHASE 7 AND 8/POSITIVE PNA AND NEG AO/NAO PATTERNS AND GOOD OPERATIONAL ANDENSEMBLE AGREEMENT YIELDING A MILD WRN CONUS AND FRIGID EAST.WIDESPREAD AREAS OF SINGLE DIGIT AND BELOW ZERO LOW TEMPERATURESCAN BE EXPECTED OVER THE NORTHEASTERN QUARTER OF CONUS NEXTWEEKEND. ROSENSTEIN

by this...and that -nao is east based not west.

nao.sprd2.gif

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by this...and that -nao is east based not west.

nao.sprd2.gif

I realize that it is not west based...nor did i say that it was but the professionals seem to be stating that its going to be a negative NAO and frigid across the east...

Usually when you have such frigid weather you have a higher chance for suppression...

Hence the GGEM no longer shows the storm....It really was not showing it at 12 Z either except for well south and then south and east of the area....

Also the UKMET did not have this second storm..until the 18 Z GFS it was just the ECM/ECM means (which the means were entirely different from the OP) that really had any storm effecting the region....

Now the ECM still has the GFS in its corner...but it lost the backing of the GGEM (where it was at least showing a storm).....

Chances are the ECM will probably lose the system as well....

Losing it does not mean one can not happen but the storm had very little ensemble support...

From Mt Holly

HOWEVER THERE APPEARS TO BE LOW

ENSEMBLE SUPPORT ATTM.

So its a period to watch but not a certainty and with the pattern expected I still would not expect a cutter because even the models that do show the system are not showing a cutter.....

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I realize that it is not west based...nor did i say that it was but the professionals seem to be stating that its going to be a negative NAO and frigid across the east...

Usually when you have such frigid weather you have a higher chance for suppression...

Hence the GGEM no longer shows the storm....It really was not showing it at 12 Z either except for well south and then south and east of the area....

Also the UKMET did not have this second storm..until the 18 Z GFS it was just the ECM/ECM means (which the means were entirely different from the OP) that really had any storm effecting the region....

Now the ECM still has the GFS in its corner...but it lost the backing of the GGEM (where it was at least showing a storm).....

Chances are the ECM will probably lose the system as well....

Losing it does not mean one can not happen but the storm had very little ensemble support...

From Mt Holly

So its a period to watch but not a certainty and with the pattern expected I still would not expect a cutter because even the models that do show the system are not showing a cutter.....

I wouldn't favor a cutter either right now, but i can see how a cutter could come from this pattern. By cutter i mean a track close to the cities, not great lakes.

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