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NYC/PHL January 7-9 Potential Part I


earthlight

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Wow, what has to happen for you guys to NOT get snow this year haha. Really, against all odds you're doing it. Congrats, this is a neat little event and is really gonna be nowcasting out there.

Don't send any congrats just yet...60+ hours out is hardly lock in time for a norlun. More like 12-24 hours if that.

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Meh, 6"-12" from TTN to ALB from an inverted trough...that would be nice.

As long as I get 2-4" to rewhiten all the ground that's lost snow and make the piles outside temporarily look less hideous, it's fine by me. Whatever more comes is just gravy.

It just goes to show the power of this block to shift this far south an event that usually never gets south of downeast Maine or the immediate eastern MA coast.

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remember what I posted earlier. the GFS is a global model with a lower resolution, so it WILL over-smooth the cutoff between norlun and no-norlun.

0z run looks great, but I wouldn't count on it verifying.

(Sorry if I'm coming off sounding like bluehens, lol. I just don't want a massive weenie suicide Friday morning. I still think everyone gets at least 1-2")

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Well there's a reason why the models are pointless beyond a certain time. In just 1 run, we go from a coastal plain hugger to a suppressed solution. I would hold off on that threat for now and focus on the potential Norlun event. It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds and who gets the worst of it.

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where do you find where the best omega is? Do you just use the 700mb charts on the models for best uv's, then go to a sounding and see what temperature is at that level.

BUFKIT data can help you determine that, having a site that can illustrate the BUFKIT data is even more of a plus. Penn State Ewall has a BUFKIT data section where you can choose the site of your choice and get that info via text output using either the NAM, GFS, or RUC models. However, the text output can take a while to look thru.

http://www.meteo.psu...NUS_NAM_00.html

Alot of ppl use the coolwx site because it takes the model data and prints out the precip type and amounts.. for example using KPHL and the 0z NAM

post-1507-0-93869600-1294200480.png

However, this site also illustrates the models BUFKIT data as well.

Temp:

post-1507-0-22482900-1294200750.png

Omega:

post-1507-0-41308100-1294200758.png

Site Link (on the left hand side you can find other plots/models/cites/etc)

Comparing these, you can see that according to the 0z NAM (you can do this for the GFS and RUC models too) that it appears the best lift occurs generally around the -6 to -10ºC levels, although some omegas extend up thru the -16ºC. To give a rough guesstimate on those plots, I would say it is fairly decent but not optimal and would probably equate to about 10-12:1. Surface temps are around freezing, so may reduce it a bit, but yea these maps can give you a rough idea of how good the snow ratios could possibly be. As far as precise info to calculate these parameters to get a ratio like 15-20:1, <10:1 and etc.. I'm not completely sure of. Theres lots of variables that determine the ratio, so going with a a more general idea instead of really going crazy trying to determine the precise value is likely better when dealing with a widespread snow event.

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BUFKIT data can help you determine that, having a site that can illustrate the BUFKIT data is even more of a plus. Penn State Ewall has a BUFKIT data section where you can choose the site of your choice and get that info via text output using either the NAM, GFS, or RUC models. However, the text output can take a while to look thru.

http://www.meteo.psu...NUS_NAM_00.html

Alot of ppl use the coolwx site because it takes the model data and prints out the precip type and amounts.. for example using KPHL and the 0z NAM

post-1507-0-93869600-1294200480.png

However, this site also illustrates the models BUFKIT data as well.

Comparing these, you can see that according to the 0z NAM (you can do this for the GFS and RUC models too) that it appears the best lift occurs generally around the -6 to -10ºC levels, although some omegas extend up thru the -16ºC. To give a rough guesstimate on those plots, I would say it is fairly decent but not optimal and would probably equate to about 10-12:1. Surface temps are around freezing, so may reduce it a bit, but yea these maps can give you a rough idea of how good the snow ratios could possibly be. As far as precise info to calculate these parameters to get a ratio like 15-20:1, <10:1 and etc.. I'm not completely sure of. Theres lots of variables that determine the ratio, so going with a a more general idea instead of really going crazy trying to determine the precise value is likely better when dealing with a widespread snow event.

wow, thanks a lot, that really helped.

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I think nearly every met and weather enthusiast is getting completely burnt this winter. The changes from then till now are astounding. How do you go from a forecast, in November, for January and February to be several degrees above average and end up with January potentially being one of the coldest months in several years.

And how does NJ/NYC end up with a 20-30"+ snowstorm from a Miller A in a moderate/strong Nina. Did not see that coming.

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