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E PA/NJ/ DE Winter 2021-22 OBS Thread


JTA66
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2 minutes ago, Birds~69 said:

Accumulating on grass only or falling then melting shortly after/changing to rain isn't much fun. It's going to be too warm...

45F

Of course all that matters regarding snow accumulation is what accumulates on non-paved surfaces. So while grass is not ideal (hopefully folks have a snow board or at worst a table) With a wee bit of elevation which the models are picking up on - if reality is as modeled (not saying it is) then we will see some folks reporting accumulations of snow. I have recorded 6" of snow at times without a flake on the roads or my driveway....it is still officially 6" of snow

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7 minutes ago, ChescoWx said:

Of course all that matters regarding snow accumulation is what accumulates on non-paved surfaces. So while grass is not ideal (hopefully folks have a snow board or at worst a table) With a wee bit of elevation which the models are picking up on - if reality is as modeled (not saying it is) then we will see some folks reporting accumulations of snow. I have recorded 6" of snow at times without a flake on the roads or my driveway....it is still officially 6" of snow

Not saying it isn't but it's not enjoyable. I rather have freezing rain which coates the trees and roads. Snow that doesn't stick to pavements/roads is unproductive snow...  

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21 minutes ago, Kevin Reilly said:

CMC trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat and the gfs minus will be predicting weather on Venus! 

CMC may have the best idea in that it is the most progressive solution. Ukie digs the energy and bombs out off the VA Capes. Given the progressive nature of the pattern we have seen, I doubt this will be much different than other recent systems but maybe the N and W can cash in with some measurable snow. 

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3 hours ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

ICON came in flatter and subsequently colder with less of an ocean influence. In line with 12z CMC. This is the direction we want to head....without it of course shearing out too much and becoming a nothing burger like happened last Nina episode repeatedly. 

 

icon_mslp_pcpn_frzn_neus_40.png

Eps

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10 minutes ago, ChescoWx said:

Most of the models have trended much drier and further north....likely won't have a clear picture till 0z Tuesday with this set up

Should fit the Nina norm of either sheared and suppressed....colder. Or slightly amped wave coming Norther and N and W areas seeing measurable. Still leaning towards N and W seeing the accums this time. Then we take a break, and hope the pattern resolves itself by the Christmas and NY holiday week(s).

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wow, two consecutive GFS runs now of 6"+ . I am thrilled.

Maybe the tide is turning?  LOL  Lets see what the Euro spits out? Still no real good  model consensus though in the long ranges. I will not budge off my 1-3" initial first thoughts for this storm until there at least two runs of the Euro in agreement to some type of 4+ snowfall. We have been burned too many times so far this season with even the light snow predictions in the LV. This is just how last season started off and this is a typical thread the needle type of storm. When the NAM sees it , I will jump  on board.  Basically these clown maps are click bait  even at 5 days with the raging PAC jet and long range model chaos from run to run. I am sorry to say this  but these long range models  at least this year do not even provide proper  guidance with their drastic changes every 8 hours. I am really wondering if many of the PAC ocean buoys are screwed up or do we need much more? How about launching  balloons from drones to get more accurate atmospheric data to ingest into the models? Bet nobody thought of that? 

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6 hours ago, Albedoman said:

wow, two consecutive GFS runs now of 6"+ . I am thrilled.

Maybe the tide is turning?  LOL  Lets see what the Euro spits out? Still no real good  model consensus though in the long ranges. I will not budge off my 1-3" initial first thoughts for this storm until there at least two runs of the Euro in agreement to some type of 4+ snowfall. We have been burned too many times so far this season with even the light snow predictions in the LV. This is just how last season started off and this is a typical thread the needle type of storm. When the NAM sees it , I will jump  on board.  Basically these clown maps are click bait  even at 5 days with the raging PAC jet and long range model chaos from run to run. I am sorry to say this  but these long range models  at least this year do not even provide proper  guidance with their drastic changes every 8 hours. I am really wondering if many of the PAC ocean buoys are screwed up or do we need much more? How about launching  balloons from drones to get more accurate atmospheric data to ingest into the models? Bet nobody thought of that? 

You're in trouble if you are using 2 runs of 6"+ from the GFS as a baseline for snow totals. GFS was always the most amped with this system and has been stubborn and slow to trend towards other guidance. I felt the other day the CMC had the right idea leading the way with the squashed/sheared look especially given the progressive Nina flow. Still hoping the N and W folks can cash in on some measurable but im beginning to think that may be a challenge given the lack of any SER or real amplification in the flow.

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3 hours ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

You're in trouble if you are using 2 runs of 6"+ from the GFS as a baseline for snow totals. GFS was always the most amped with this system and has been stubborn and slow to trend towards other guidance. I felt the other day the CMC had the right idea leading the way with the squashed/sheared look especially given the progressive Nina flow. Still hoping the N and W folks can cash in on some measurable but im beginning to think that may be a challenge given the lack of any SER or real amplification in the flow.

Make that 3 runs, Ralph

 

CD1B93FB-3E58-4CB7-961E-5488C192CF77.jpeg

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32 minutes ago, hazwoper said:

Make that 3 runs, Ralph

 

CD1B93FB-3E58-4CB7-961E-5488C192CF77.jpeg

Follow the trend. Go back 7 or 8 runs and follow the trend. Stubborn yet classic GFS late to pick up the fast Nina flow. Like the old Euro...it doesn't seen to make massive moves run to run but the Euro and GFS have reversed places the past 2 or 3 years. More upgrades?

Eta: I'm not discounting measurable snowfall. Been suggesting for a while there will be some. Im just having a tough time wrapping my head around a 6"+ model where the pattern doesn't support it. Said in my outlook and sticking to it...c-3" events will be the norm this year.

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First Snow climatology for Chester County PA

12/6 = Average 1st measurable snow

10/29 - earliest

1/28/72 - latest (note no snow at all for 1972-73 (no snow fell between 2/24/72 and 12/17/73)

December first snow = 62 times / November 1st snow - 48 times / January 1st snow - 14 times / October 1st snow - 2 times

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