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wxeyeNH

NNE Cold Season Thread 2020-2021

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40 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

My faith was really shaken by Grinch and then the lengthy dry and warm period afterwards, but this last several days has been epic. It looks to at least stay fairly cold too, so we can keep what we have on the ground.

I really enjoy reading your posts about your first NNE winter.  Now you see that even with a cutter or two once you get a deep base it just doesn't melt until spring.  This is been a very boring pattern south of the mountain so you guys up there do good even without the real storms.  Enjoy.

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13 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

-SN falling here now.

Radar looks real good for you guys in N Greens--there's radar echoes backing up in N NY through  Canada.  Another fluff bomb refresher.

another 5-7 for freak and j spin incoming

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3k nam spitting out some impressive totals for the spine and over into the whites as well for the next 48 hours. almost .5" of qpf in spots

 

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I bet we are pushing 2" already.  These are some of the largest fluffy flakes you'll ever find.  They are like the size of half-dollars and it's really cold.

Can see Mansfield blocking the beam to the NE.

Radar.jpg.cec75ad5aed94b74a4ddfc8783e5bb37.jpg

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Just now, backedgeapproaching said:

Right, and .5" certainly isn't going to be 10:1 as we know.

some spruce tree at 3500' on the spine might see another foot

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17 minutes ago, NW_of_GYX said:

some spruce tree at 3500' on the spine might see another foot

I mean we just got 2" of absolute dust on probably 0.04" of water, ha.  This has to be 40:1 or even a bit higher.

Jan_21b.jpg.f59fe85b23a8affc17ebc7285864067a.jpg

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38 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

I bet we are pushing 2" already.  These are some of the largest fluffy flakes you'll ever find.  They are like the size of half-dollars and it's really cold.

We’re out at Dartmouth for an appointment at the moment, but I can see on our webcam that we’ve picked up 1-2” of snow at this point.

Since we drove to Dartmouth earlier, I can pass along a few observations from the trip.  Snow started up at the house at some point in the 8:00 A.M. - 8:30 A.M. range, and snowfall was fairly light as we were heading out.  The snowfall stayed with us at that light intensity for most of the trip, although I’m sure it was ramping up somewhat back at the house.  In terms of snowpack, I didn’t really notice any obvious differences in depth along much of I-89, which is pretty typical because a lot of the interstate east of Montpelier stays at fairly high elevations with good snowpack preservation.  And as PF points out, once you have a certain depth of snowpack that it’s covering most vegetation, the increases or decreases aren’t that obvious.  The snowpack decreased substantially once we hit the Sharon area, which I guess is starting to get down into the Connecticut River Valley?  The snowpack dropped to a few inches, and here in Lebanon there’s just an inch or so on the ground.  It is snowing here in Lebanon, and although it’s just been very light with small flakes, those have increased now to 10-15 mm flakes.

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I would highly recommend getting out at night for a bit with a head lamp during these cycles. It is a magical time with the diamond dust and flakes illuminated while moving in them.

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13 minutes ago, dendrite said:

Snow globe. Big flakes. 18.7F

 

4 minutes ago, wxeyeNH said:

15.5F  Light to almost moderate snow.   About 1" of pure fluff.  

Nice--glad you guys could get a little of the fun too--even if its just an inch or two.

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Just now, backedgeapproaching said:

 

Nice--glad you guys could get a little of the fun too--even if its just an inch or two.

My cam never does the flakes justice, but these even look large on it.

image.png

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Event totals: 3.4” Snow/0.07” L.E.

 

Details from the 2:00 P.M. Waterbury observations:

New Snow: 3.4 inches

New Liquid: 0.07 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 48.6

Snow Density: 2.1% H2O

Temperature: 18.7 F

Sky: Light Snow (5 to 20 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 17.5 inches

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3 hours ago, powderfreak said:

I mean we just got 2" of absolute dust on probably 0.04" of water, ha.  This has to be 40:1 or even a bit higher.

Jan_21b.jpg.f59fe85b23a8affc17ebc7285864067a.jpg

Good instincts!  I just got back to the house and a 2:00 P.M. liquid analysis revealed a 48.6:1 ratio here.  That’s from a 3.4” stack, and combining and averaging two snow cores, so it’s certainly a decent sampling of the first part of this event.

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1 minute ago, powderfreak said:

Pretty snowy day.  Even MVL hasn’t gone above 2 mile visibility since 9am out in the valley.

We just traveled back from the Lebanon/Hanover area, and it was snowing the whole way, so this seems to be hitting much of NNE with at least some snow.  The heaviest snowfall we saw was actually as were setting out from the Connecticut River Valley/West Lebanon area into Vermont, and counter to what one typically sees, the snowfall was lighter through the higher elevations of I-89.  Naturally, we could have been leaving during an uptick/burst, and it’s always hard to make solid comparisons among areas when you’re traveling in both time and space.  Snowfall ramped up a bit as we approached Waterbury, and then a bit more as we headed farther west to the house.  I’d still call the snowfall intensity we saw here light to perhaps moderate, but the flakes were larger at our site relative to what we saw along the route.  Obviously snow growth has been quite potent here along the spine with the accumulation thus far coming in at almost a 50 to 1 ratio.

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On 1/19/2021 at 7:08 PM, wxeyeNH said:

The ground is white with crusty snow but it's a different world on the south side of the mountains.  It's funny  I feel I'm not part of the NNE group with all your upslope snow but not the SNE group either.  Just lost here in Central NH as we wait for the next one whenever that may be...

You know, I’ve been thinking about this post for the past couple of days, and when I first saw it, my immediate thought was, “Well, you don’t need to worry about those other groups, you’re in the Dendrite group”.  Did you used to have something like that in your signature, or was it somebody else?

There’s always that running discussion in the forum about where the demarcations for the SNE, CNE, and NNE regions belong, and obviously it’s a point of contention because there’s no perfect answer.

I think CNE is the hardest to define (I haven’t even found something to work as a representative CNE “link” yet), because at the most basic level, you’ve got this northern border of MA that one can just use to define SNE as RI, CT, and MA, and NNE as VT, NH, and ME if you’re just going to split the region in two.  Or, it looks like you can consider SNE as whatever is south of the CT/RI/MA border, then I guess MA is CNE, and NNE is north of that.

A main issue for the NNE area is that proximity to the major mountain ranges drastically changes the complexion of the climate, and the effects of latitude (certainly with respect to snowfall/precipitation) really breaks down.  Latitude, or even a combination of latitude and longitude to impart distance from the coast and incorporate modest elevation increases moving away from the coastal plain, works pretty well until you run into some of the major mountain ranges.  Once you get to the major mountains, then a lot of things break down, and you’ve got these unique microclimates.  In terms of snowfall, many of the mountain valleys around here along the spine average more snow than even a place like Caribou, despite the lower latitude.

It’s hard to argue that you guys in VT, NH, and ME outside the major NNE mountain ranges are somehow CNE (and that’s essentially impossible for someone like Tamarack with his latitude), but the climate is definitely different without the prominent mountain effects on weather/climate.  There’s definitely been an uptick in NNE mountain dwellers in the forum in recent months, but I don’t know at what point the area would be worth its own thread – the whole NNE thread is still pretty small potatoes relative to the main threads in the forum.

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Not too impressed with the conditions at Cannon today. Basically a sheet of ice with some ungroomed loose fluff on top. Not sure if it’s a grooming issue or a snowfall issue, or likely a combination. I haven’t skied this mountain much in the past, and I have heard that the “challenging conditions” are part of the deal here. It was pretty crappy up top, to be honest. I feel like they kinda missed on this last storm. Maybe even had some rain. 

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26 minutes ago, J.Spin said:

You know, I’ve been thinking about this post for the past couple of days, and when I first saw it, my immediate thought was, “Well, you don’t need to worry about those other groups, you’re in the Dendrite group”.  Did you used to have something like that in your signature, or was it somebody else?

 

Thanks for your response J Spin.  I think that was someone else,  I never had that in my signature but I have kidded in the past that I live in Dendriteland.  I do feel that my weather is much more in line with NNE.   This year because we have had fewer synoptic storms  I can't really join in the fun that the posters that live in the Greens or people like Alex or Phin  that live in the Whites since I don't get upslope snow.  In that regard, I along with the Maine guys have been left out  but all in all, year after year I generally do very good.  Just being able to look outside and see a solid snowpack makes me happy.  There has been lots of talk in the past about where CNE starts and ends.  If you were to include the entire state of Maine, heck we would all live in S or CNE.  Broadly I take CNE from the Mass line north to me which includes the Lakes Region of NH.  As soon as you get to the Southern Whites (which is about 10 miles north of me) you are in solid  NNE climate.  It gets more complicated in VT because the Green Mountain spine goes  all the way south to the Mass line so Vermonters get more snow and less of a marine influence, hence a colder, snowier winter.  Everyone has there own interpretation and all and all I am very happy as to where I live as far a winter weather is concerned.

Today ended up being a great example.  Solid snow cover, temperatures staying in the teens with snow falling at various rates all day.  Speaking to that my neighbors rented out their house this week  to a Washington DC area  family that wanted to get out of town with all the inauguration activity.  The family has 2 boys and they have been outside  sledding and playing in the snow non stop the last few days.  It's stuff like this we take for granted but kids  don't get many opportunities down there for winter type fun.

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1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

Not too impressed with the conditions at Cannon today. Basically a sheet of ice with some ungroomed loose fluff on top. Not sure if it’s a grooming issue or a snowfall issue, or likely a combination. I haven’t skied this mountain much in the past, and I have heard that the “challenging conditions” are part of the deal here. It was pretty crappy up top, to be honest. I feel like they kinda missed on this last storm. Maybe even had some rain. 

Cannon's a fun mountain, but it is notorious for being cold and icy. I think one of it's biggest reasons is wind, particularly along the spine of the main part of the mountain. When it snows (or even sometimes when they're blowing snow), it just blows off to the sides. And once they get that hard rainer, it seems it's always going to be icy in those exposed areas the rest of the season.

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4 minutes ago, wxeyeNH said:

Thanks for your response J Spin.  I think that was someone else,  I never had that in my signature but I have kidded in the past that I live in Dendriteland.  I do feel that my weather is much more in line with NNE.   This year because we have had fewer synoptic storms  I can't really join in the fun that the posters that live in the Greens or people like Alex or Phin  that live in the Whites since I don't get upslope snow.  In that regard, I along with the Maine guys have been left out  but all in all, year after year I generally do very good.  Just being able to look outside and see a solid snowpack makes me happy.  There has been lots of talk in the past about where CNE starts and ends.  If you were to include the entire state of Maine, heck we would all live in S or CNE.  Broadly I take CNE from the Mass line north to me which includes the Lakes Region of NH.  As soon as you get to the Southern Whites (which is about 10 miles north of me) you are in solid  NNE climate.  It gets more complicated in VT because the Green Mountain spine goes  all the way south to the Mass line so Vermonters get more snow and less of a marine influence, hence a colder, snowier winter.  Everyone has there own interpretation and all and all I am very happy as to where I live as far a winter weather is concerned.

Today ended up being a great example.  Solid snow cover, temperatures staying in the teens with snow falling at various rates all day.  Speaking to that my neighbors rented out their house this week  to a Washington DC area  family that wanted to get out of town with all the inauguration activity.  The family has 2 boys and they have been outside  sledding and playing in the snow non stop the last few days.  It's stuff like this we take for granted but kids  don't get many opportunities down there for winter type fun.

I hear where you're coming from Gene. I'm about 5 miles north of where you see the "Entering White Mountain Region" sign just south of Exit 27. Right after that sign, you see Welch Dickey and it "feels" like you're in the mountains. That being said, I rarely, if ever cash in on the upslope events. I mean, I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've looked across the valley to Welch Dickey or beyond (towards Tecumseh, or the back side of Scar Ridge) and the mountains are obscured in snow. I'll end up with a flurry or two and Alex and Phin report 3-4". 

Even though your elevation is nearly the same as mine, you're sometimes a degree or so colder which helps you with marginal events. You're 1100' is probably equal to 1200' in my hood. This winter has been an anomaly when it comes to upslope. I've been nickel and diming my way to about 15-18" since Christmas. Very, very unusual, but I'll take it. Looks and feels like winter. 

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