Stebo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Wmsptwx said: PA is 25 percent restaurant and only bars that serve meals open. This is what I would model those businesses on right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Stebo said: So if someone going in for something else but tests positive you don't want that counted as a positive case? I mean what is the point you are trying to get at? It is a positive case. But it's counted as a covid hospitalization. This only matters if you're trying to determine how often the virus leads to symptoms requiring hospitalization. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Just now, Jonger said: But it's counted as a covid hospitalization. This only matters if you're trying to determine how often the virus leads to symptoms requiring hospitalization. The case/ICU/death numbers are the more important numbers in my eyes, especially ICU/death. This wouldn't impact those numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ovweather Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Jonger said: But it's counted as a covid hospitalization. This only matters if you're trying to determine how often the virus leads to symptoms requiring hospitalization. This is where the data becomes very muddy. If someone breaks their leg and needs surgery to repair it, but also tests positive for Covid even though they are asymptomatic, it’s counted as a Covid hospitalization? I guess it’s no different than someone dying from cancer, but also being Covid positive at the time of death and marking it down as a Covid death. I’m not sure I understand the logic of padding the Covid data this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmsptwx Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Stebo said: The case/ICU/death numbers are the more important numbers in my eyes, especially ICU/death. This wouldn't impact those numbers. The gymnastics they pull is just astounding. We are in deep sh*t with this outbreak and there’s no other way to put it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Stebo said: True no one is going to Indiana to party The beaches have been packed though. Speaking of which, some of them are going to be closing. I guess too many people not observing proper distancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ovweather said: This is were the data becomes very muddy. If someone breaks their leg and needs surgery to repair it, but also tests positive for Covid even though they are asymptomatic, it’s counted as a Covid hospitalization? I guess it’s no different than someone dying from cancer, but also being Covid positive at the time of death and marking it down as a Covid death. I’m not sure I understand the logic of padding the Covid data this way? As far as how to classify the deaths, it should be the best medical judgement of whatever caused the death. Some of the cancer plus covid cases may be tough to tell as far as which one caused the death, but typically it should be pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ovweather Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Hoosier said: As far as how to classify the deaths, it should be the best medical judgement of whatever caused the death. Some of the cancer plus covid cases may be tough to tell as far as which one caused the death, but typically it should be pretty clear. If someone has incurable cancer and while on their deathbed suddenly tests positive for Covid, too, is it being classified a Covid caused death (when it clearly isn’t)? The same with someone being hospitalized for a serious injury and they also happen to have asymptomatic Covid. Is it being classified as a Covid hospitalization? I hope in these such examples it isn’t as to keep the data legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Hoosier said: As far as how to classify the deaths, it should be the best medical judgement of whatever caused the death. Some of the cancer plus covid cases may be tough to tell as far as which one caused the death, but typically it should be pretty clear. Excess deaths are running about 31k over confirmed/probable covid deaths as of June 6th on the CDC data. The aggregate data clearly shows we undercounted covid deaths, especially early on. The deaths with covid narrative is complete nonsense and is meant to reduce the gravity of the pandemic. The confirmed/probable counts are quite close to excess counts later on as the testing expanded and we caught nearly all the severe cases. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Stebo said: The case/ICU/death numbers are the more important numbers in my eyes, especially ICU/death. This wouldn't impact those numbers. I'm almost sure that an accident or elective surgery admission does not count as a covid hospitalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dta1984 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Lol https://www.yahoo.com/news/sign-michigan-shop-warns-masked-175748202.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted_Trough Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Hospitalization counts are supposed to only include patients where the primary diagnosis is Covid. Pregnant women who are hospitalized and have Covid are often not counted because of this. So I think the overcounts and undercounts on hospitalizations go both ways...and may just balance out. There were also a lot of deaths back in March and early April that were likely Covid deaths, but were not counted because testing was so limited back then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 19 hours ago, Stebo said: Both of those capacities are way too high still, should be much less. Might as well just prepare to write each business owner in America a sizable check, because the operating expense to keep the place open will be a net loss. Most businesses operate just a hair over break even. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, dta1984 said: Lol https://www.yahoo.com/news/sign-michigan-shop-warns-masked-175748202.html I'm so tired of people sticking phones in each other's faces. I wish someone would invent some sort of Faraday cage that blocks cameras. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanDe680 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 IL positivity rate continues to increase... 3.25% today with nearly 44k tests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ovweather Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 54 minutes ago, Jonger said: I'm so tired of people sticking phones in each other's faces. I wish someone would invent some sort of Faraday cage that blocks cameras. In the future everyone will be required to wear a GoPro strapped to their heads at all times so nothing is missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Jonger said: Might as well just prepare to write each business owner in America a sizable check, because the operating expense to keep the place open will be a net loss. Most businesses operate just a hair over break even. That opportunity was there, but the current administration saw it fit for celebrities and in-laws to get the money first. Maybe you should take an issue with that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 19 hours ago, Hoosier said: The beaches have been packed though. Speaking of which, some of them are going to be closing. I guess too many people not observing proper distancing. Ours are closing due to poor water quality/possible bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted_Trough Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 If most businesses barely make a profit, that's not a resilient system. Maybe these business models need to change to properly account for existential risks. Any business that serves the general public is always going to be vulnerable to a public health crisis. Just because pandemics are very rare doesn't mean the risk doesn't exist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Inverted_Trough said: If most businesses barely make a profit, that's not a resilient system. Maybe these business models need to change to properly account for existential risks. Any business that serves the general public is always going to be vulnerable to a public health crisis. Just because pandemics are very rare doesn't mean the risk doesn't exist. Not to mention a closed business does have quite the overhead an open business has, since they aren't paying workers for the most part. And in same cases they can run with less people and make more if they are a take out/delivery service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanDe680 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 This thing looks a mess. https://rt.live/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Stebo said: Not to mention a closed business does have quite the overhead an open business has, since they aren't paying workers for the most part. And in same cases they can run with less people and make more if they are a take out/delivery service. If they could make the same cash with less staff, they wouldn't waste money on payroll in a normal scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Inverted_Trough said: If most businesses barely make a profit, that's not a resilient system. Maybe these business models need to change to properly account for existential risks. Any business that serves the general public is always going to be vulnerable to a public health crisis. Just because pandemics are very rare doesn't mean the risk doesn't exist. That's capitalism, the moment you let your foot off the gas your competition will be right there to fill that gap you give them. Most businesses expand so they can weather the lean years, but it's all about timing. Did you just finish paying on capital improvements or did you just start? All of this factors into surviving and much of it is luck or anticipating correctly. This is the first forced business closure since WW2 or the spanish flu? Lol.... you'd be laughed at for thinking this was on the horizon a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outflow Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Jonger said: you'd be laughed at for thinking this was on the horizon a year ago. there wasnt a person on earth on july 18th 2019 that thought we would be anywhere close to what is happening in the world today. The machine shop i work at had for over a year had been making plans to get out of a high volume low profit line of automotive parts. The end date for the work was mid 2020 there after everyone working those machines would be put in other areas of one of the two buildings on other more profitable work lower volume work. Well 2020 came around with its disastrous attitude and instead of these people being moved to other work many are out of a job since that work slowed to a crawl. My shift of 13 people is down to 4. Im sure the story is similar elsewhere but like you said no one foresaw this occurring. The effects of covid alone cost these people there jobs which otherwise would have been safe. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Jonger said: If they could make the same cash with less staff, they wouldn't waste money on payroll in a normal scenario. Yeah every business owner is greedy, thanks for reminding the class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Stebo said: Yeah every business owner is greedy, thanks for reminding the class. Greedy? Because someone wants to make a living on their own and not work for someone else? Jeez. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, outflow said: there wasnt a person on earth on july 18th 2019 that thought we would be anywhere close to what is happening in the world today. The machine shop i work at had for over a year had been making plans to get out of a high volume low profit line of automotive parts. The end date for the work was mid 2020 there after everyone working those machines would be put in other areas of one of the two buildings on other more profitable work lower volume work. Well 2020 came around with its disastrous attitude and instead of these people being moved to other work many are out of a job since that work slowed to a crawl. My shift of 13 people is down to 4. Im sure the story is similar elsewhere but like you said no one foresaw this occurring. The effects of covid alone cost these people there jobs which otherwise would have been safe. It's a mess. The investigations into hospitals, officials and patients will be ongoing for years. The risk assessment for every virus will be weighed and you bet your butt the threshold will be higher. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 38 minutes ago, Jonger said: Greedy? Because someone wants to make a living on their own and not work for someone else? Jeez. What else would you call your comment of wasting money on payroll, you are viewing the workers for a business as nothing more than line items to be eliminated. It is those same workers that then don't have money to buy the products. This country has gone far away from the Henry Ford models where you pay a good wage so the workers can buy the products they make or services provided. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 5 hours ago, outflow said: there wasnt a person on earth on july 18th 2019 that thought we would be anywhere close to what is happening in the world today. The machine shop i work at had for over a year had been making plans to get out of a high volume low profit line of automotive parts. The end date for the work was mid 2020 there after everyone working those machines would be put in other areas of one of the two buildings on other more profitable work lower volume work. Well 2020 came around with its disastrous attitude and instead of these people being moved to other work many are out of a job since that work slowed to a crawl. My shift of 13 people is down to 4. Im sure the story is similar elsewhere but like you said no one foresaw this occurring. The effects of covid alone cost these people there jobs which otherwise would have been safe. Scientist have been talking about needing more funding for emerging disease surveillance for years. The next pandemic was always only a matter of time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 About 850 new cases in IN, which is the 2nd highest daily number since testing began. Positive test percentage is higher than ideal but not crazy high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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