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eekuasepinniW

NNE Winter: just can't compete with Maple Hollow.

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The calls for a spring thread have been growing so I figured I would oblige.  Played my first 9 last evening so sping has officially sprung!  Even though there were several large patches of snow left at the course.

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Each photo of snow will incur a 24 hour suspension from the board.

Dammit! ninja'd.  Mods please delete the other NNE spring or sping thread,

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BTV departures so far for April...and while I was doing this, a couple things really stood out.

 

1) How in the world does MVL at like 700ft have a climo normal temperature that is lower than MPV at nearly 1200ft?  Something there is wrong...MPV radiates decently, maybe not quite as well as MVL, but its not enough to off-set the 400+ feet of extra elevation.  

 

2) How is 1v4's climo average temperature 2.5 degrees higher than MVL's when they are about the same elevation and 1V4 is actually further NE into the colder climate of the NEK?

 

To me, MVL's average temperature should be around like 42.5-43.0F  judging by the rest of these sites.

 

MPV (1,165ft)

Average Temp: 38.8F

Departure: -2.8

Normal Temp: 41.6F

 

MVL (730ft)

Average Temp: 40.0F

Departure: -1.0

Normal Temp: 41.0F

 

1V4 (695ft)

Average Temp: 40.3F

Departure: -3.2

Normal Temp: 43.5F

 

BTV

Average Temp: 44.1F

Departure: +0.2

Normal Temp: 43.9F

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Might want to check when 1V4 went online...it's possible period of record issue?

 

1V4 is one of the longest running stations in VT I think?  1800s type period of record.  MVL is much more recent.  Which makes it even more intriguing given the propensity for warmth in the past 20 years or so.  

 

The one to me is how is it colder than MPV.  MPV always has lower highs due to its elevation, and can often radiate similar to MVL.  And if its not a radiating night, the elevations stay colder anyway.  

 

I mean there's a reason why MPV's mean temp this month is 1.2 degrees lower than MVL's (about what you might expect from 400ft of elevation change)...I just can't figure how MVL would've developed "normals" that are lower than MPV's.  

 

Like last month... MVL average temp was 23.0 (-5.6), so the normal temperature should've been 28.6F.  However MPV as usual was lower (as they should be being a colder climate), with 22.2 but the departure was -6.7 with an average temp supposed to be 28.9F.  

 

Each month, Montpelier ASOS has a lower mean temperature than Morrisville-Stowe ASOS...when someone the climo norms show that MVL should be the colder location (even though its 400-500ft lower in elevation).

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BTV departures so far for April...and while I was doing this, a couple things really stood out.

 

1) How in the world does MVL at like 700ft have a climo normal temperature that is lower than MPV at nearly 1200ft?  Something there is wrong...MPV radiates decently, maybe not quite as well as MVL, but its not enough to off-set the 400+ feet of extra elevation.  

 

2) How is 1v4's climo average temperature 2.5 degrees higher than MVL's when they are about the same elevation and 1V4 is actually further NE into the colder climate of the NEK?

 

To me, MVL's average temperature should be around like 42.5-43.0F  judging by the rest of these sites.

 

MPV (1,165ft)

Average Temp: 38.8F

Departure: -2.8

Normal Temp: 41.6F

 

MVL (730ft)

Average Temp: 40.0F

Departure: -1.0

Normal Temp: 41.0F

 

1V4 (695ft)

Average Temp: 40.3F

Departure: -3.2

Normal Temp: 43.5F

 

BTV

Average Temp: 44.1F

Departure: +0.2

Normal Temp: 43.9F

 

The BTV values surprise me very much.  With the exception of the week of the 12th through the 18th, it's felt like a cool, damp, cloudy, month. 

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BTV departures so far for April...and while I was doing this, a couple things really stood out.

 

1) How in the world does MVL at like 700ft have a climo normal temperature that is lower than MPV at nearly 1200ft?  Something there is wrong...MPV radiates decently, maybe not quite as well as MVL, but its not enough to off-set the 400+ feet of extra elevation.  

 

2) How is 1v4's climo average temperature 2.5 degrees higher than MVL's when they are about the same elevation and 1V4 is actually further NE into the colder climate of the NEK?

 

To me, MVL's average temperature should be around like 42.5-43.0F  judging by the rest of these sites.

 

MPV (1,165ft)

Average Temp: 38.8F

Departure: -2.8

Normal Temp: 41.6F

 

MVL (730ft)

Average Temp: 40.0F

Departure: -1.0

Normal Temp: 41.0F

 

1V4 (695ft)

Average Temp: 40.3F

Departure: -3.2

Normal Temp: 43.5F

 

BTV

Average Temp: 44.1F

Departure: +0.2

Normal Temp: 43.9F

 

Be careful with Saint Johnsbury. The official climate site is the COOP, not the ASOS. The climate normals I believe are calculated off the COOP site which reports 4pm-4pm rather than the ASOS (1v4) which is midnight to midnight (Although supposedly NCDC does some voodoo to "recreate the midnight to midnight time period", but who knows how that works). The 4pm-4pm calculation I think lends them to having a higher normal because the end/beginning of the day happens at peak heating. So you have 2 chances at the high for the 24 hour period.

 

So for example, the current monthly temperature at SJBV1 is 41.9F versus the monthly temperature at K1V4 is 40.5F. So for their month, they're technically -1.6F below climate normals, not -3.0F. Although again the voodoo at NCDC is worked into it somewhow...

 

We generally avoid talking/posting about that site to the public to avoid the confusion lol. If it wasn't such a long POR, we'd make them switch from their 4pm-4pm routine.

 

Bottom-line its a mess.

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The BTV values surprise me very much.  With the exception of the week of the 12th through the 18th, it's felt like a cool, damp, cloudy, month. 

 

Yeah, we made up the difference on the lows. The clouds and dampness kept BTV's lows mainly above normal to normal despite the cooler daytime temps. Also those grouping of warm days (with even a 75F in there) were much more anomalous than the days in the 40s/50s, so those kicked us up. We had 3 double digit positive departure days versus 1 negative.

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1V4 is one of the longest running stations in VT I think?  1800s type period of record.  MVL is much more recent.  Which makes it even more intriguing given the propensity for warmth in the past 20 years or so.  

 

The one to me is how is it colder than MPV.  MPV always has lower highs due to its elevation, and can often radiate similar to MVL.  And if its not a radiating night, the elevations stay colder anyway.  

 

I mean there's a reason why MPV's mean temp this month is 1.2 degrees lower than MVL's (about what you might expect from 400ft of elevation change)...I just can't figure how MVL would've developed "normals" that are lower than MPV's.  

 

Like last month... MVL average temp was 23.0 (-5.6), so the normal temperature should've been 28.6F.  However MPV as usual was lower (as they should be being a colder climate), with 22.2 but the departure was -6.7 with an average temp supposed to be 28.9F.  

 

Each month, Montpelier ASOS has a lower mean temperature than Morrisville-Stowe ASOS...when someone the climo norms show that MVL should be the colder location (even though its 400-500ft lower in elevation).

 

Haha I think we've had this discussion before regarding the weird climo and while I've got answer for St. J, I've got nothing for you on MVL vs. MPV lol.

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BTV departures so far for April...and while I was doing this, a couple things really stood out.

 

1) How in the world does MVL at like 700ft have a climo normal temperature that is lower than MPV at nearly 1200ft?  Something there is wrong...MPV radiates decently, maybe not quite as well as MVL, but its not enough to off-set the 400+ feet of extra elevation.  

 

2) How is 1v4's climo average temperature 2.5 degrees higher than MVL's when they are about the same elevation and 1V4 is actually further NE into the colder climate of the NEK?

 

To me, MVL's average temperature should be around like 42.5-43.0F  judging by the rest of these sites.

 

MPV (1,165ft)

Average Temp: 38.8F

Departure: -2.8

Normal Temp: 41.6F

 

MVL (730ft)

Average Temp: 40.0F

Departure: -1.0

Normal Temp: 41.0F

 

1V4 (695ft)

Average Temp: 40.3F

Departure: -3.2

Normal Temp: 43.5F

 

BTV

Average Temp: 44.1F

Departure: +0.2

Normal Temp: 43.9F

 

Definite gradient there from west to east...basically normal west to below normal east.

 

MSS: -0.2F

SLK: -0.5F

PBG: +0.4F

BTV: +0.1F

MVL: -1.1F

MPV: -2.9F

VSF: -1.6F

 

Also judging from that I would agree with you that MPV looks like a bad outlier.

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Definite gradient there from west to east...basically normal west to below normal east.

 

MSS: -0.2F

SLK: -0.5F

PBG: +0.4F

BTV: +0.1F

MVL: -1.1F

MPV: -2.9F

VSF: -1.6F

 

Also judging from that I would agree with you that MPV looks like a bad outlier.

 

Haha yeah we have had this discussion before.  It just puzzles me so much sometimes. 

 

When looking at departures, you can basically take the MVL departure and subtract another 1-2 degrees for the MPV departure, every month.  The extra 1-2F departure just represents the adiabatic difference between 750ft and 1,200ft haha, as they have the same climo base numbers apparently 

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Each photo of snow will incur a 24 hour suspension from the board.

 

One of the shovel piles from my the roof and walk-way will make it till May. 

 

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I welcome the 70's next week, Need to dig up the yard but need to dry it out to get some equipment in to do the job

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Saw more clouds than sun today, but overall not too bad when the sun was out with temperatures in the 50s.

 

Had fun playing in the snow with the new puppy.

 

11165009_10102204958083190_5384495218731

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Saw more clouds than sun today, but overall not too bad when the sun was out with temperatures in the 50s.

 

Had fun playing in the snow with the new puppy.

 

11165009_10102204958083190_5384495218731

I move to nominate the puppy as the official mascot of the NNE thread.  Might help attracting some ladies in here. :whistle:

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I move to nominate the puppy as the official mascot of the NNE thread. Might help attracting some ladies in here. :whistle:

Yes, a lot of us are suckers for a cute pup :) first things first, though....you gotta get the ladies to the board, then you gotta get them to this thread...can't put the cart before the horse

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I'm starting to think we don't have much in common haha.

I think we both appreciate a vicious thunderstorm and a good undercast.  

 

We both also probably eat meals and go to the bathroom occasionally.  The similarities seem to end there.  :lol:

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I think we both appreciate a vicious thunderstorm and a good undercast.

We both also probably eat meals and go to the bathroom occasionally. The similarities seem to end there. :lol:

Haha yup, undercast and severe storms it is ;)

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Rose breasted grosbeak on the feeder.... one of the prettiest birds around. Haven't seen one for quite a while.

i get them every spring about this time...usually 1 male and a female. The female is pretty bland looking like most fem birds. Havent had one yet. Still waiting for the first oriole and hummer too.

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