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Let's talk Winter!


Steve

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Something for us Ohioans to hang on to -- Ripped from the NE thread.

 

EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS WEATHER PREDICTION CENTER COLLEGE PARK MD
1046 AM EST WED FEB 18 2015

VALID 12Z SAT FEB 21 2015 - 12Z WED FEB 25 2015


RELIED ON THE FASTER, FLATTER GUIDANCE OVER THE EASTERN UNITED STATES AT THE MEDIUM RANGE THIS FORECAST PACKAGE, WITH DEFERENCE TO THE PRIMACY OF COLD AIR. MUCH AS THE MODELS THIS TIME LAST WEEK
WERE WONT TO LIFT THE CURTAIN OF ARCTIC AIR IN THE EAST TO ALLOW A SURFACE LOW TO PASS WEST OF THE APPALACHIANS FOR THE TIME FRAME VERIFYING YESTERDAY AND TODAY--WITH A FLATTER, COLDER WAVE THE
REALITY--BELIEVE THAT A SIMILAR ISSUE EXISTS FOR THE WAVE CROSSING THE EAST THIS SATURDAY NIGHT INTO SUNDAY.
LEANED ON THE MSC MEAN--CANADIAN ENSEMBLE MEAN--AS A SYNOPTIC GUIDE FOR THE NATION
THROUGHOUT THE PERIOD. A TEMPORARY DIP IN THE JET OVER THE WESTERN STATES WILL HELP TO URGE THE CLOSED LOW WEST OF BAJA NORTHWARD--THE EFFECTS OF BOTH SYSTEMS PRODUCING PRECIPITATION FROM SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA TO THE CENTRAL HIGH PLAINS. ONCE THE ENERGY OVER THE SOUTHWEST ROCKETS EAST-NORTHEASTWARD NEXT TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY, ANOTHER OVERRUNNING EVENT OF WINTRY PRECIPITATION
IS POSSIBLE FOR PARTS OF THE DEEP SOUTH, WITH MORE SNOW POSSIBLE OVER THE PIEDMONT AND ENTIRE ATLANTIC COASTAL PLAIN NORTH OF THE CAROLINAS.


CISCO

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The Hudson vortex is west of here. It may sample even further west in future runs. Even if the energy doesn't take hold and churn into a major storm torching us, there will be precip issues. Just the nature of the beast.

You're right. My bad! I'm An idiot. Stupid, stupid, stupid pondo1000......

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The WxBell snow maps are so bad. This would struggle to stay all snow on the front end (this is CMH text data), but we'll give heavy precip rates the benefit of the doubt and say it's 3-5", plus maybe 1" more on the backside. And this is, other than the NAVGEM, the farthest south model. There is no blocking, -20F from radiational cooling doesn't mean anything as soon as a 7MPH breeze kicks in. I'm not saying we'll be shut out but I think the WxBell Euro snow maps are giving people false hope for a bigger storm that in all likelihood won't happen.

 

The models have been under-estimating the intensity of Pacific shortwaves all winter and every one has been playing catchup with every storm until the last minute. With no blocking this should be no different IMO. I'm rarely a "pessimist" so far out but a lot needs to go different with this one. It could be a winter weather advisory for I-70 which is better than nothing but I wouldn't expect much more than a few inches, best case.

SAT 12Z 21-FEB  -3.8    -2.9    1022      88      74    0.03     552     534    SAT 18Z 21-FEB   0.8    -0.7    1020      93      97    0.07     556     540    SUN 00Z 22-FEB   1.1    -1.3    1017      99     100    0.46     555     542    SUN 06Z 22-FEB   2.8     0.0    1012      88     100    0.51     556     546    SUN 12Z 22-FEB   6.2     3.1    1006      87      90    0.34     553     548    SUN 18Z 22-FEB  -0.4    -4.2    1017      81      45    0.13     548     535    MON 00Z 23-FEB  -2.8    -7.4    1025      81      11    0.00     549     530    MON 06Z 23-FEB  -8.6   -10.6    1029      75      24    0.00     547     524    MON 12Z 23-FEB -15.2   -16.3    1032      77      77    0.00     545     520    
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The WxBell snow maps are so bad. This would struggle to stay all snow on the front end (this is CMH text data), but we'll give heavy precip rates the benefit of the doubt and say it's 3-5", plus maybe 1" more on the backside. And this is, other than the NAVGEM, the farthest south model. There is no blocking, -20F from radiational cooling doesn't mean anything as soon as a 7MPH breeze kicks in. I'm not saying we'll be shut out but I think the WxBell Euro snow maps are giving people false hope for a bigger storm that in all likelihood won't happen.

 

The models have been under-estimating the intensity of Pacific shortwaves all winter and every one has been playing catchup with every storm until the last minute. With no blocking this should be no different IMO. I'm rarely a "pessimist" so far out but a lot needs to go different with this one. It could be a winter weather advisory for I-70 which is better than nothing but I wouldn't expect much more than a few inches, best case.

SAT 12Z 21-FEB  -3.8    -2.9    1022      88      74    0.03     552     534    SAT 18Z 21-FEB   0.8    -0.7    1020      93      97    0.07     556     540    SUN 00Z 22-FEB   1.1    -1.3    1017      99     100    0.46     555     542    SUN 06Z 22-FEB   2.8     0.0    1012      88     100    0.51     556     546    SUN 12Z 22-FEB   6.2     3.1    1006      87      90    0.34     553     548    SUN 18Z 22-FEB  -0.4    -4.2    1017      81      45    0.13     548     535    MON 00Z 23-FEB  -2.8    -7.4    1025      81      11    0.00     549     530    MON 06Z 23-FEB  -8.6   -10.6    1029      75      24    0.00     547     524    MON 12Z 23-FEB -15.2   -16.3    1032      77      77    0.00     545     520    

 

thank you!!!!!  

 

time to dust off the snowblower.   The only thing the last two storms were missing was OHweather telling us we weren't getting sh*t!  :P  I'm mess'n with you 

 

Look, I have no false hope from wxbell maps and yes this looks like north trend all the way.  BUT, why is everyone commenting on the models consistently under estimating the pac shortwaves when clearly that wasn't an issue with this last storm.   GFS early on had us in the jackpot with that one, as did some other models....seems there was an OVERestimation, not an underestimation.

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thank you!!!!!

time to dust off the snowblower. The only thing the last two storms were missing was OHweather telling us we weren't getting sh*t! :P I'm mess'n with you

Look, I have no false hope from wxbell maps and yes this looks like north trend all the way. BUT, why is everyone commenting on the models consistently under estimating the pac shortwaves when clearly that wasn't an issue with this last storm. GFS early on had us in the jackpot with that one, as did some other models....seems there was an OVERestimation, not an underestimation.

Hehe

By this point with the last storm the models were burying it south and the NWS was gearing up to issue watches all the way to Birmingham. It was a significant north trend inside of two days due to the shortwave coming in stronger. February first is another example of the shortwave coming in much stronger once it got sampled. So that's why I said that about Pac shortwaves. We shall see

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the nam sucks for us verbatim, but it's interesting that it hasn't been amping the hell out of this thing.   In fact trend-looping the 500h maps on amwx between 12z and 18z and the flow is definitely a bit flatter and more progressive and the low weaker.   I expect the nam to be all over the northern most amped solution....like the canary in the coal mine.  We'll see.  

 

just say'n

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the nam sucks for us verbatim, but it's interesting that it hasn't been amping the hell out of this thing.   In fact trend-looping the 500h maps on amwx between 12z and 18z and the flow is definitely a bit flatter and more progressive and the low weaker.   I expect the nam to be all over the northern most amped solution....like the canary in the coal mine.  We'll see.  

 

just say'n

 

 

I think that would've been more of a red flag in previous winters, but there have been times this winter where the NAM has been too far southeast at this range and then adjusted north.

 

We're kinda in the same boat on this one...hoping for the same trend.  I wish I could be more optimistic about the NAM.

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Yep, see Stebo's response to you. :-)

Buckeyes reply over there examplifies exactly why I don't use the storm thread. As said before there needs to be 2 subforums. One for the ohio valley and one for the great lakes. The reason is because in the storm threads if you say something isn't north then you're an idiot.

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Buckeyes reply over there examplifies exactly why I don't use the storm thread. As said before there needs to be 2 subforums. One for the ohio valley and one for the great lakes. The reason is because in the storm threads if you say something isn't north then you're an idiot.

To be fair, most of those guys are good guys.  Just some are...well....different.  :-)

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To be fair, most of those guys are good guys.  Just some are...well....different.  :-)

 

I agree....but it's still ridiculous to have such a massive geographic region all discussing a single storm system. If I want to post a model showing something favorable for us, do I really need the usuals commentating against it?  

 

Also we're outnumbered like 4 to 1 over there....which makes it even more pleasant.

 

Now, if a storm is verifying and it's an Obs thread, I'm all for everyone posting in it.  That was the point Hoosier was making about posting in the main thread earlier in the week.... that's why I didn't have a problem with it, although probably could have pinned a new obs thread.

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Buckeyes reply over there examplifies exactly why I don't use the storm thread. As said before there needs to be 2 subforums. One for the ohio valley and one for the great lakes. The reason is because in the storm threads if you say something isn't north then you're an idiot.

Someone is always going to be on the wrong side of the line no matter how small you chop it up.

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