wxsniss Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 What do you expect the media to do? New England's largest metro area and there is a tornado warning. I'd be zooming in on the wall cloud too. How about an accelerating bow echo of severe storms with hail and knocking out power to thousands heading into Boston metro with hundreds of thousands of people crowded outside along an open river? Honestly the fireworks storms were far worse a setup than that warned cell. A warning is not a tornado, and I'm still trying to understand the basis for this warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Medford bos harbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Concord Country Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 How about an accelerating bow echo of severe storms with hail and knocking out power to thousands heading into Boston metro with hundreds of thousands of people crowded outside along an open river? Honestly the fireworks storms were far worse a setup than that warned cell. A warning is not a tornado, and I'm still trying to understand the basis for this warning. Sometimes you have to trust that the mets/NWS know more than you.There's massive damage all over that area. There was monster rotation. It was 110% warranted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Be responsible? How about an accelerating bow echo of severe storms with hail and knocking out power to thousands heading into Boston metro with hundreds of thousands of people crowded outside along an open river? Honestly the fireworks storms were far worse a setup than that warned cell. A warning is not a tornado, and I'm still trying to understand the basis for this warning. It was a tor warning and they zoomed in on the wall cloud. This gets more coverage because its a tor warning not a svr tstorm. The public is uneducated on the risks comparing the two and thats just the way it is. It's like the Sandy controversy when it got to Jersey/NYC. The public doesn't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 WOW Concord Country Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 It was a tor warning and they zoomed in on the wall cloud. This gets more coverage because its a tor warning not a svr tstorm. The public is uneducated on the risks comparing the two and thats just the way it is. It's like the Sandy controversy when it got to Jersey/NYC. The public doesn't understand. Ch 5 zoomed in on scud. This is different from wind damage which this storm had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Sometimes you have to trust that the mets/NWS know more than you.There's massive damage all over that area. There was monster rotation. It was 110% warranted You have no clue. Nobody is arguing wind damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROOSTA Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 WOW Concord Country Club Loose impediment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modfan Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Straight line winds in Concord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 You have no clue. Nobody is arguing wind damage. What? The TOR warning was 100% correct in being issued. Noone is saying it touched down. There's major league damage..whether it was wind or TOR. With rotation of any type you issue a TOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxsniss Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Sometimes you have to trust that the mets/NWS know more than you.There's massive damage all over that area. There was monster rotation. It was 110% warranted Explain it to me Kevin. I missed the velocity scan showing a possible tornado or a possible imminent tornado. I get the damage, which could very well be from straight line winds, and a severe storm warning could have covered that. I missed the velocity evidence for a tornadic storm, maybe because I checked in too late, so show me the scans I missed... If not, I think a certain degree of responsibility needs to be maintained so that the public is ready for when a more legitimate tornado threat comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Straight line winds in Concord? Looked like it on velocity. Didn't mean to suggest tor if I had. Straight line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 That pic in the harbor seems tough to tell could be leading edge scud as it looks like shelf cloud just moved in. The other pic is more suspicious but again still photos don't tell anything in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Explain it to me Kevin. I missed the velocity scan showing a possible tornado or a possible imminent tornado. I get the damage, which could very well be from straight line winds, and a severe storm warning could have covered that. I missed the velocity evidence for a tornadic storm, maybe because I checked in too late, so show me the scans I missed... If not, I think a certain degree of responsibility needs to be maintained so that the public is ready for when a more legitimate tornado threat comes along. Rotation was tighter near 495 Ayer, Littleton, Concord. Tornado was completely warranted there imho. The one closer to BOS, was much more questionable. I think the population came into consideration with that warning, as there was brief tightening of circulation and reports of funnel clouds by trained spotters to the nws in taunton minutes prior to the latter warning being issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 What? The TOR warning was 100% correct in being issued. Noone is saying it touched down. There's major league damage..whether it was wind or TOR. With rotation of any type you issue a TOR Ugh. Anyways my point was on the coverage. It was the usual hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I see absolutely nothing in any of those pictures to confirm a funnel... It's completely possible there was one for a short time.. But until we see more to suggest otherwise, scud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Ugh. Anyways my point was on the coverage. It was the usual hype.I thought you were saying there shouldn't have been a warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modfan Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Looked like it on velocity. Didn't mean to suggest tor if I had. Straight line. I was going by the pic on the golf course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 5-6 fires after that first storm. Burlington(1 eugene rd), Woburn(5 conn street), Winchester(8 keenan dr), Saugus (43 grandview rd), Melrose(60 vinton st). Haven't really ever seen that many from a storm. Must have been an unbelievable amount of lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I thought you were saying there shouldn't have been a warning. I said rotation was weak. It was very weak. I'm not a radar operator so I don't know what goes into the decision. This is different from any straight like wind which is obviously had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ct_yankee Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 The warning was probably issued because the cell had a TVS for one scan right before the warning went out. Combine that with the radar presentation showing a well defined hook and rfd, then factor in the ground reports of rotation and funnels... Bottom line: warranted, or at least eminently defensible as warranted. I agree the velocity was meh, and none of the pics show any funnels. But there was just enough doubt, so to play it safe they went with the warning. That's my guess how it went, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 If like to see a lot of trees down in one location. 40kts can easily take a few trees down. 50+ starts bring a whole new level of trees down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 One thing to remember too is after the 6/1/11 tornado event the NWS decreased their "criteria" for issuing a TOR when it comes to g2g velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 That second storm continued to pack a punch. One buddy said rain was ferocious in Hvd Sq. Other friend in Allston near harvard business school said lightning struck within a block, ears even rang afterwards. Line out west looks impressive too. It's growing, gaining strength. HRRR says most of the area sees storms again tonight. Looks to be harping deeper echos near rt 2 again for later. Probably a solid light show later, and some gusty winds. Everything is linear, don't expect more tor warnings from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radarman Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 One thing to remember too is after the 6/1/11 tornado event the NWS decreased their "criteria" for issuing a TOR when it comes to g2g velocity. Is that true? It's odd because from what I recall it wasn't lack of GTG shear that caused the late warning, it was the fact that the BOX radar was in range fold and no ENX display readily available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Yeah that sounds like BS. They missed it for other reasons as Radarman said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Is that true? It's odd because from what I recall it wasn't lack of GTG shear that caused the late warning, it was the fact that the BOX radar was in range fold and no ENX display readily available. I thought I saw that posted not too long after...the premise was that around here given how it can be a bit difficult for the radar beams to get storng samples at times (especially lower levels of the storms) that they were going to slightly decrease their threshold of g2g shear...forgot what the values were but the threshold was also determined based on research of what some of the g2g velocities were from previous tornadoes which have occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Ashburnham Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I'm curious what SPC's reasoning was for NOT ultimately issuing a watch, particularly when they did well in their MD for our region, which pretty much nailed what eventually did take place. They said watch possible ... then I guess let it lie ? Good call... By the way, there appears to be a wind pulse coming down the Mohawk Trail along with bowing on rad. I'd also like to take a closer look at the sounding coming into this show... I notice as I approached the SC from the S on I -190 that the flanking line TCU were collapsing into an alto-strata deck, but the cell it's self had a sing toe top that appeared to even nudge the tropopause as it had some what of a roll cloud around the skirt of the anvil (really spectacular really) Anyway, that type of structure suggest there was a weak cap in place, and that might have helped this by keeping the K index down enough for 1 or 2 cells to become main players by punching through the cap. Speculation just based on CB morphology/obs... That 2nd storm that came down somewhat south of the predecessor was a thunder show in Acton/Concord. Man, I chased that sucker out of Harvard all the way in, and there were overlapping CGs at time. That thing was putting out some serious f'ing amperage. This is interesting... we could go through this again tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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