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December and a Hint of January Pattern Discussion


Bob Chill

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Gefs looks pretty cold next week and tells weenies no worry about the -epo going poof. End of the run is relaxed but could care less about d16 right now. Let's track some digital snow first.

 

my WAG is 

 

12/1-12/7 - warm overall with a cooler start

12/8 - 12/15 - cold, but oscillating

12/16 - 12/25 - very warm, cooling right before Christmas

12/26 - 1/10 - cold and "snowy"

1/11 - 1/31 - warm winning over cold, not much snow

 

after that who knows...not that I know before that....

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Matt, I hope you're right and your wag mimics my overall thoughts that I've had for months leading up. Couple weeks of good then bad then good. Simply a continuance of what we've seen since late last winter. I personally like it and hope that's exactly how it shakes out. Enough with the story of 2 winters. I will want to puke if we have to chase the "flip" for a month or more this winter. So far so good.

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Matt, I hope you're right and your wag mimics my overall thoughts that I've had for months leading up. Couple weeks of good then bad then good. Simply a continuance of what we've seen since late last winter. I personally like it and hope that's exactly how it shakes out. Enough with the story of 2 winters. I will want to puke if we have to chase the "flip" for a month or more this winter. So far so good.

Nothing worse than the flip. Which gets delayed and delayed. I think maybe we get a block right around Christmas?

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Matt, you would think we get a block at some point right? Elusive so far but Nov blocks aren't really important. We'll prob have some ideas if/when the ao declines from its second spike. I imagine if a favorable block happens it will take some time to materialize rather than magically appear.

Wes, DT (if he hasn't already) will say the euro ens totally disagree with the op so throw it out and his ideas are still firmly in place.

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Matt, you would think we get a block at some point right? Elusive so far but Nov blocks aren't really important. We'll prob have some ideas if/when the ao declines from its second spike. I imagine if a favorable block happens it will take some time to materialize rather than magically appear.

Wes, DT (if he hasn't already) will say the euro ens totally disagree with the op so throw it out and his ideas are still firmly in place.

What's bad is  it's a shifting argument.   For that reason, I may just pull the plug on him. 

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Matt, you would think we get a block at some point right? Elusive so far but Nov blocks aren't really important. We'll prob have some ideas if/when the ao declines from its second spike. I imagine if a favorable block happens it will take some time to materialize rather than magically appear.

Wes, DT (if he hasn't already) will say the euro ens totally disagree with the op so throw it out and his ideas are still firmly in place.

We probably will get a decent period or two with a block but you have to wonder with all the cold available if it just doesn't overwhelm the pattern. We may go into the bone dry freezer and watch the clipper parade pass by.

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Matt, you would think we get a block at some point right? Elusive so far but Nov blocks aren't really important. We'll prob have some ideas if/when the ao declines from its second spike. I imagine if a favorable block happens it will take some time to materialize rather than magically appear.

Wes, DT (if he hasn't already) will say the euro ens totally disagree with the op so throw it out and his ideas are still firmly in place.

Hopefully the 12 Euro will be wrong with its handling of the Pacific and the next trough digging into the west.  It certainly could be overamplified a bit. 

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We probably will get a decent period or two with a block but you have to wonder with all the cold available if it just doesn't overwhelm the pattern. We may go into the bone dry freezer and watch the clipper parade pass by.

Given the promise of the southern stream being active this month, I would prefer blocking in some fashion. There is definitely signs of storms originating or vorts intensifying near the gulf. A block would keep them from running west of us. It's never easy right?

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Don S just reversed his call for Dec and now has gone mild.in the east.

 

 

The shift in the data was too convincing to ignore. I suspect that the turn in what I was looking at is more than variability where I could simply leave the forecast as is. Moreover, the EPO is not forecastable beyond two weeks or so (at least I've found no literature to argue otherwise). Nevertheless, the EPO- regime would be pushing up against historical benchmarks by mid-December, so some relaxation if not a turn to positive for at least a time seems more likely than not. The overall idea of a milder winter remains unchanged.

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No reason to expect the pattern which emerged 3 weeks ago to change. In fact, one week ago the 7 day for today was highs in the low 50's. This recent shot ws actually more than 3-5 days but in general the cold wins out, the warmth underperforms, we continue 3-5+ cold, 1-2 mild.

I don't know if that's true. The models were pretty cold for Thanksgiving and surrounds.
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Given the promise of the southern stream being active this month, I would prefer blocking in some fashion. There is definitely signs of storms originating or vorts intensifying near the gulf. A block would keep them from running west of us. It's never easy right?

Never easy is a mild way to put it, but if we can get some decent blocking by late Dec. into early Jan. I think your idea of an active southern stream might work out. If any blocking is delayed until mid Jan. then I think cold/dry would dominate but that's just a guess. Our region usually does best with -nao in February in terms of cold and stormy combined. I hope we can some blocking in late Dec. and early Jan. because then we may be able to time another period of blocking in early Feb. which would be ideal. If our first period of blocking is delayed until mid Jan. then the next period may come too late for us if it comes at all. March snow events have not been working out too well.

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No reason to expect the pattern which emerged 3 weeks ago to change. In fact, one week ago the 7 day for today was highs in the low 50's.  This recent shot ws actually more than 3-5 days but in general the cold wins out, the warmth underperforms, we continue 3-5+ cold, 1-2 mild.

I understand your thinking but there actually is reason to believe the pattern can change. Most here are all in agreement that we have been cold because of the -epo. The fact that we have been relying on this one factor gives us nothing to fall back on . As Don Sutherland has showed us if the -epo continues through mid month it will be approaching unprecedented territory. History tells us the probability of this reversing is pretty significant so we need the other indicies to change in our favor to keep us cold. Records are always broken so who knows, maybe the -epo defies the odds and stays the way it has been beyond mid month and runs right up to the new year.

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Looks pretty certain that the first 8-10 days of December are going to be average to above average for temps. Beyond that, around Dec 10-15, is the period where whats left of the arctic dump in the west oozes eastward, while some moisture gets involved from the southern stream. Hard to say how it will evolve, but some well timed blocking, even if transient, would help. Seems possible looking at the GFS ensm... there is some variability but looks like it could dip negative at least briefly. At some point the AO and NAO need to flip, as the -EPO will eventually relax and not save us, and then we wont even get our cold and dry periods.

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Don, your posts are excellent and part of my daily read. It's hard not to agree. This year is fun. Warmer usually means hopeless torch in these parts. But variability this year leaves windows open.

With that being said, the blind weenie side of me hopes you bust ;).

I hope I bust, as well. I much prefer snow and cold to any other alternative.

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No reason to expect the pattern which emerged 3 weeks ago to change. In fact, one week ago the 7 day for today was highs in the low 50's.  This recent shot ws actually more than 3-5 days but in general the cold wins out, the warmth underperforms, we continue 3-5+ cold, 1-2 mild.

 

This upcoming week could break the recent trend...nothing set in stone of course, but decent chance  mid week  to end of weekend give or take a day is our longest + departure stretch in over a month and cold shot after that doesn't look like it has as much staying power as the recent one...I still think there is a short window of time after the next cold shot to  get a wintry event

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