patrick05 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 PAGASA Radar Station destroyed as well.. looks like the base is still intact so hopefully, they have gotten some readings as the eye moved ashore... but overall, just heartbreaking seeing all these images.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan11295 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Comparing those images to images of places like Cateel after Bopha/Pablo this looks bad or even worse than images showing wind damage from that storm (using that as a frame of reference as building standards are probably comparable). The images of Giprolos also show severe wind damage. Almost certain every community along that coast looks like that. The first image shows structures with heavy damage despite being protected on all sides due to the downtown location. Remember winds will have a much greater effect on structures in an exposed location like in the second photo. Not surprised the radar was destroyed. being above the ground it was likely exposed to category 5 winds at that location. EDIT: The second photo is actually of an island off the coast from Samar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncforecaster89 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I may be mistaken, but that looks like tremendous storm surge damage-not surprising given the incredible surge that occurred in Tacloban City. Edit: referencing the pic Andy posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendy Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Video from the ground in Guiuan. http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/nation/regions/11/10/13/first-look-destruction-guiuan-samar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncforecaster89 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The thing that stands out to me is how sad the living conditions were for these residents even before the Typhoon hit. As horrible as the devastation is, I must admit that I'm somewhat amazed that there is anything left of those shanties, after being blasted by what should've been (were?) category five winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SN_Lover Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Video from the ground in Guiuan. http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/nation/regions/11/10/13/first-look-destruction-guiuan-samar How anyone survived that in that town is a miracle. WOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan11295 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 How anyone survived that in that town is a miracle. WOW Wind damage is generally more survivable than storm surge or flash flooding. More people died from storm surge in Sandy than died from winds in Andrew, for example. Even in Joplin, thousands of houses were reduced to foundations yet "only" 160 people died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SN_Lover Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 "10,000 FEARED DEAD IN JUST ONE CITY" CNN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlebrick Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Those aerial pics look like EF4-EF5 damage. From a hurricane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The blowdown picture reminds me of the aftermath of the 1962 Columbus Day storm up here in the Pacific NW, but the trees there are likely significantly more wind-resistant than the trees here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye05 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Those aerial pics look like EF4-EF5 damage. From a hurricane. No they don't. I have yet to see any damage pics consistent with that of a violent tornado. Horrific destruction don't get me wrong, but not of that caliber. I have yet to see any slabbed homes or significant debarking. The wind damage from Andrew in the Naranja area was more impressive than what I have seen so far with Haiyan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 No they don't. I have yet to see any damage pics consistent with that of a violent tornado. Horrific destruction don't get me wrong, but not of that caliber. I have yet to see any slabbed homes or significant debarking. The wind damage from Andrew in the Naranja area was more impressive than what I have seen so far with Haiyan. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye05 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 lol How is that funny? Show me an example of that, cause iv'e heard the claims but no actual pictures to support them. Probably too early to tell where the worst wind damage was, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 How is that funny? Show me an example of that, cause iv'e heard the claims but no actual pictures to support them. Probably to early to tell where the worst wind damage was, but still. Quite frankly that blowdown picture is comparable to what we see when a violent tornado goes through a forest. And to expect tree debarkings (which I have seen in some areas regardless) and slabbed homes from a TC when the dynamics work differently than in a tornado (especially regarding vertical velocities) is unrealistic in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackH Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 No they don't. I have yet to see any damage pics consistent with that of a violent tornado. Horrific destruction don't get me wrong, but not of that caliber. I have yet to see any slabbed homes or significant debarking. The wind damage from Andrew in the Naranja area was more impressive than what I have seen so far with Haiyan. Impossible to compare because the wind fields are vastly different. Tony had a fantastic post on it a while back and everything he noted is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick05 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 this is what Guiuan Airstrip used to look like: this is what it looks like now: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye05 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Quite frankly that blowdown picture is comparable to what we see when a violent tornado goes through a forest. And to expect tree debarkings (which I have seen in some areas regardless) and slabbed homes from a TC when the dynamics work differently than in a tornado (especially regarding vertical velocities) is unrealistic in most cases. I would agree, but I was rejecting the idea that it looks comparable to EF5 tornado damage, which it doesn't for obvious reasons. I saw some pictures that could be mistaken for debarking, but a lot of trees in tropical climates have thin, smooth bark that would make it really hard to tell without being there. Honestly, I would be surprised to see any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensō Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The idea of comparing to tornado damage just doesn't work regardless. There's not much of a vertical component, and although TC winds can be very dynamic and gusty, they aren't really comparable to the sudden, violent accelerations and directional shifts seen in tornadoes. I'd imagine debris loading wouldn't be nearly the same either, and that's a significant part of how tornadoes cause damage. It'd be convenient to use the EF-scale as a rough guide, but it doesn't work. I don't think there's any way to reliably estimate the intensity from the photos and video we've seen anyway, at least not without a lot more information. I do think we can safely say it was extremely violent and some areas probably experienced winds above (possibly well above) the Cat. 5 threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye05 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The idea of comparing to tornado damage just doesn't work regardless. There's not much of a vertical component, and although TC winds can be very dynamic and gusty, they aren't really comparable to the sudden, violent accelerations and directional shifts seen in tornadoes. I'd imagine debris loading wouldn't be nearly the same either, and that's a significant part of how tornadoes cause damage. It'd be convenient to use the EF-scale as a rough guide, but it doesn't work. I don't think there's any way to reliably estimate the intensity from the photos and video we've seen anyway, though I think we can safely say it was extremely violent and some areas probably experienced winds above (if not well above) the Cat. 5 threshold. I completely agree, and I'm not expecting to see any slabbing/debarking. I'm just stating that it is unrealistic for people to expect that degree of wind damage from a Tropical Cyclone. It just doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey2002 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Show me an example of that, cause iv'e heard the claims but no actual pictures to support them. Probably too early to tell where the worst wind damage was, but still. Pics are still coming in... Tacloban City: Guiuan: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey2002 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 "10,000 FEARED DEAD IN JUST ONE CITY" CNN Wow, some unreal photos there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Pics are still coming in... tacloban.jpg Tacloban City: damage.jpg Guiuan: guiuan.jpg Judging by the proximity to the coast, the first two images are probably due to the combination of the wind and surge, although the first picture really does look like Banda Aceh in Sumatra after the Boxing Day Tsunami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyewall Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Eyewall footage from downtown Tacloban in which Josh mentioned they probably had Cat 4 conditions as they were not as exposed as the areas that saw the highest winds: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey2002 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Judging by the proximity to the coast, the first two images are probably due to the combination of the wind and surge, although the first picture really does look like Banda Aceh in Sumatra after the Boxing Day Tsunami. Yeah, a lot of the pictures look like Tsunami damage... the surge had to come in like a tsunami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user13 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Yeah, a lot of the pictures look like Tsunami damage... the surge had to come in like a tsunami. tacloban-city.jpg Yea it did, watch the second to last video http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2496954/Philippines-super-typhoon-Haiyan-powerful-storm-history.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Yea it did, watch the second to last video http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2496954/Philippines-super-typhoon-Haiyan-powerful-storm-history.html Yeah, this video really shows the speed of the surge coming in and how the people got caught in it. http://anc.yahoo.com/video/storm-surge-floods-tacloban-105620802.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apm Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I completely agree, and I'm not expecting to see any slabbing/debarking. I'm just stating that it is unrealistic for people to expect that degree of wind damage from a Tropical Cyclone. It just doesn't happen. This whole notion of de-barking is pretty misunderstood. The debarking occurs from debris strikes, not the wind itself. So the amount of it depends not only on the wind speed but the immediate environment and debris source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I wonder how the Shell Oil Depot and Petron Oil Depot fared http://goo.gl/maps/lAc3G http://ph.geoview.info/oil_depot,2186534851n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Well Josh has come in with a pressure data. 960mb was bout 40mb higher than I was expecting for being about 3 miles outside the eye and 10 miles from the exact center. Warning I'm not a met, but: I doubt there was a 100mb pressure drop in 10 miles. The central pressure may very well have only been around 910mb or higher. That would still leave room for an insane pressure gradient in the eyewall. Also since it was at a lower latitude only around 11N much stronger wind speeds are possible. That would explain why the wind damage is about the worst I've ever seen with a TC. Edit: Josh was more like 13-15 miles from the exact center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jims Videos Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 From an AP article "Looters raided grocery stores and gas stations in search of food, fuel and water as the government began relief efforts and international aid operations got underway." That's not my definition of looters. That's my definition of survivors. Bad choice of words. Looters carry tvs merchandise and other non life essential things from stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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