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December 24-25 Snowstorm


Jim Martin

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I didn't say anything about it having a weaker 300 mb jet. System would likely do what this Monday/Tuesday system is going to do...blow its load in the Plains/MS Valley and then shear out in confluence farther east after occlusion...at the same time trying to transfer to a coastal low. If it comes out farther north, the MI crew could get into some light snow. You are looking pretty good down there ATTM though. Just my guess at this point...nothing to take serious this far in advance.

so you agree with my screw zone map i posted earlier in this thread....lol

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I personally like where we're at right now, Buckeye. EURO is the weakest with the system, but I like its location. Gfs is good all the way around, Ukie and Gem isn't horrible and we have wiggle room for the N shift on the euro and gfs. Idk, I'm feeling this one.

the euro could go either way...but i think it's like 60/40...further suppression and weakening vs. north and stronger. Don't mean to sound like a downer but we have a pretty solid history so far this season of what happens to these systems coming out of the rockies....and none of them yet has maintained their strength AND cut thru the lower OH valley the way the gfs is showing.

hope i eat crow.

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the euro could go either way...but i think it's like 60/40...further suppression and weakening vs. north and stronger. Don't mean to sound like a downer but we have a pretty solid history so far this season of what happens to these systems coming out of the rockies....and none of them yet has maintained their strength AND cut thru the lower OH valley the way the gfs is showing.

hope i eat crow.

I hope you do too lol. But idk I guess after 3 misses, I'm just feeling this one. I think this one will hold true and not flop 72hrs out

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as miserable as the nam is for us here in ohio regarding tomorrow/tues clipper....it seems to want to keep light snow in the air over us most of the week....

meh, at least xmas week will look like xmas week.

Cold air will be a big change, normally in the 40's during christmas. I'm just keeping everything crossed for this storm.

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I'm not sure what the fuss over the block is about, honestly. At the time this wave is over the Rockies, the "block" has already weakened to what amounts to a remnant circulation and has been cut off for over a week.

The item of real consequence seems to be the monster GoA trough which is well advertised across all modeling, and given the massive ridge that's been persistent near the Bering Strait, it certainly seems real. This should lead to big time downstream amplification, with the wave emerging downstream of the longwave ridge that is building out west.

In a nutshell:

No real confluence in weak peripheral flow as it gets out into the plains and Midwest, perhaps further east.

Abundant moisture for latent heat processes.

Pre-existing strong baroclinic boundary.

Looks like a candidate for self-development if modeling is anywhere near right at this timeframe. Having said that, with the phasing issues (wave appears to try to phase with it from the northern stream) and possible self-development, I wouldn't expect models to handle it that well.

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Wow, ILN has already gone with 70/likely PoPs for Friday and Friday night. Can't say I've seen likely wording that far out before, but then the consistency and agreement from the models has also been remarkable.

Yeah, they have us at 70 as well...more or less to make public aware for Christmas travel is my guess.

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Wow, ILN has already gone with 70/likely PoPs for Friday and Friday night. Can't say I've seen likely wording that far out before, but then the consistency and agreement from the models has also been remarkable.

PIT just said "high pops" in their afd. I've never seen such model aggreement this far out.

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DVN

THURSDAY INTO FRIDAY...WITH REGARDS TO THE NEXT MAJOR PIECE OF WAVE

ENERGY EVENTUALLY MAKING IT/S WAY ACRS THE MID CONUS...STILL PLENTY

OF PHASING AND HANDLING ISSUES BY THE MODELS TO BE WORKED OUT FOR A

MORE CONFIDENT SCENARIO IN THE END OF THE WEEK WINTER STORM. LOOKING

AT THE DIGGING UPPER JET STRUCTURE INDICATED BY MOST MEDIUM RANGE

MODELS PLUNGING SOUTHEASTWARD AND THEN HOOKING NORTHEAST OVER THE

SOUTHERN PLAINS AND LOWER MS RVR VALLEY LATE THU NIGHT INTO FRI...

FEEL THE 12Z RUN GFS MAIN SFC LOW PLACEMENT LOOKS THE BEST ALTHOUGH

IT MAY BE TOO PROGRESSIVE. THE 12Z GFS STILL WOULD SUGGEST THE

SOUTHERN QUARTER TO THIRD OF THE DVN CWA STILL IN DANGER OF

REACHING WINTER STORM CRITERIA SNOWS OF 6+ INCHES...WITH THE REST

OF THE CWA NEEDING AN ADVISORY FOR 3-5 INCHES UNDER THE PASSING MID

LEVEL WAVE. MOST OF THIS ACCUMULATING THU NIGHT INTO FRI MORNING.

LIGHT SNOW OR FLURRIES MAY LINGER INTO X-MAS EVEN WITH ONLY MINOR OR

LITTLE ADDITIONAL ACCUMULATIONS...BUT 15 TO 25 MPH NORTHERLY SFC

WINDS WOULD KEEP DRIFTING AND BLOWING SNOW TRAVEL HAZARDS GOING WELL

INTO FRI EVENING. AN ICE STORM JUST SOUTH OF THE DVN CWA THU NIGHT

ACRS MO INTO SOUTHWEST IL...BEFORE DEF ZONE SNOWS FOLLOW ON FRI. ALL

THIS IF THE CURRENT GFS PANS OUT. THE 12Z ECMWF MORE TROUBLING WITH

SOME SIGNALS OF A STRONGER UPPER JET PIECE ACRS THE GRT LKS THAT MAY

PROMOTE COUPLING AND A FURTHER NORTHWARD JOG TO THE MAIN SFC LOW OR

STRONGER INVERTED TROF COMPLEX TO FOCUS HEAVIER SNOWS ACRS THE

LOCAL CWA AND LINGER LONGER INTO FRIDAY NIGHT. FRO NOW WILL RAISE

THE POPS TO LIKELY ACRS THE SOUTH HALF THU NIGHT AND MAINTAIN HIGH

CHC POPS FROM THU AFTERNOON INTO FRI. MAY STILL NEED A FEW MORE

MODEL RUNS OVER THE NEXT 24-48 HRS FOR MORE CERTAINTY AS THE ENERGY

GETS ONSHORE AND MORE ACCURATELY SAMPLED.

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as miserable as the nam is for us here in ohio regarding tomorrow/tues clipper....it seems to want to keep light snow in the air over us most of the week....

meh, at least xmas week will look like xmas week.

ILN says snow, rain and freezing rain, no accumulation. Must be going with the NAM.

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Cold air will be a big change, normally in the 40's during christmas. I'm just keeping everything crossed for this storm.

We have not had a white Christmas since 2004. We have not had a storm of 1" or more on Christmas Day since 1995, when exactly 1" fell. Here are the top 10 for Columbus:

1. 7.0" 1890

2. 5.7" 1909

3. 3.0" 1950

4. 2.5" 1917

5. 2.3" 1969

6. 1.9" 1976

7. 1.3" 1935

8. 1.2" 1944

9. 1.1" 1989

10. 1.0" 1995

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DMX

AFTER THIS SYSTEM DEPARTS MONDAY NIGHT INTO TUESDAY

MORNING...ATTENTION THEN TURNS TO THE STRONG STORM SYSTEM

CURRENTLY OFF THE PAC NW COAST. THIS SYSTEM EJECTS A STRONG

SHORTWAVE INTO THE WESTERN U.S. ON WEDNESDAY. THIS SHORTWAVE

SAILS ACROSS THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS AND HELPS TO INDUCE SURFACE

CYCLOGENESIS IN THE LEE OF THE ROCKIES ON THURSDAY. SURFACE LOW

SLIDES SOUTH OF OUR CWA...MOVING NEAR THE MO-AR BORDER DEPENDING

ON MODEL SOLUTION...WITH AN INVERTED TROF NORTHEASTWARD INTO OUR

REGION. FORCING AND MOISTURE SUGGEST AT LEAST AN ADVISORY-TYPE

SNOWFALL ACCUMULATION VENT ACROSS OUR CWA...WITH THE POTENTIAL

FOR SNOWFALL AMOUNTS APPROACHING OR EXCEEDING THE WARNING

CRITERIA OF SIX INCHES PER LATEST COBB OUTPUT. SOME MODELS ARE

SUGGESTING THE POSSIBILITY OF ABOVE-FREEZING TEMPERATURES IN OUR

SOUTHERN CWA EARLY IN THE EVENT...SO MIXED PRECIP IS A

POSSIBILITY THERE BEFORE SWITCHING OVER TO ALL SNOW. THIS STORM

SYSTEM IS TOO FAR OUT IN THE FUTURE TO ISSUE ANY HEADLINES

ATTM...

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I'm not sure what the fuss over the block is about, honestly. At the time this wave is over the Rockies, the "block" has already weakened to what amounts to a remnant circulation and has been cut off for over a week.

AO still below -3SD by that time, well below the record low daily for a mod/strong Niña... you calling that a weak block?

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