OceanStWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 wouldn't that be a waterspout? For NWS purposes it doesn't matter. If it is not a marine zone (i.e. ocean or Great Lakes) then it is considered a missed event on a tornado if it indeed touched down on the reservoir. We had the same issue twice last summer on Winnipesaukee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 For NWS purposes it doesn't matter. If it is not a marine zone (i.e. ocean or Great Lakes) then it is considered a missed event on a tornado if it indeed touched down on the reservoir. We had the same issue twice last summer on Winnipesaukee. Really? That seems really silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropopause_Fold Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 30F atop MWN right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Really? That seems really silly. Yeah we thought so too, especially when we forecast for two of the five biggest lakes in New England. But I get it, I mean if it isn't considered a marine zone, it's a land zone. And if something touches down there it's a tornado for all intents and purposes. Unfortunately there are different processes at play sometimes, where the radar is completely useless for spotting these signatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 A waterspout is a tornado..It's just over water..how many times have we seen videos of spouts moving onshore and then termed a TOR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Yeah we thought so too, especially when we forecast for two of the five biggest lakes in New England. But I get it, I mean if it isn't considered a marine zone, it's a land zone. And if something touches down there it's a tornado for all intents and purposes. Unfortunately there are different processes at play sometimes, where the radar is completely useless for spotting these signatures. Yeah good luck getting any lead time on a waterspout on a lake in middle of nowhere Maine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I'd like to see this CAA kick-in and actually get the DP dump. Still 43F DP at KBTV and the NAM MOS is bit dry busted so far. Also appears to be too dry at other locations comparing previous machine output to actual. I went back 3 cycles and noted a slight backing off on the scale of this brief cool-down. But, there are all kinds of topographical advantages some inland places have that can encourage decoupling and so forth, too. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radarman Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 For NWS purposes it doesn't matter. If it is not a marine zone (i.e. ocean or Great Lakes) then it is considered a missed event on a tornado if it indeed touched down on the reservoir. We had the same issue twice last summer on Winnipesaukee. With the exception of a photograph showing a condensation funnel and waves kicked up how do they verify the touchdown for the stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I'd like to see this CAA kick-in and actually get the DP dump. Still 43F DP at KBTV and the NAM MOS is bit dry busted so far. Also appears to be too dry at other locations comparing previous machine output to actual. I went back 3 cycles and noted a slight backing off on the scale of this brief cool-down. But, there are all kinds of topographical advantages some inland places have that can encourage decoupling and so forth, too. We'll see. Dew here is still 62..Though we did have .12 in the downpour this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 MWN is 30 degrees with 30 knot NW winds..Drag would like that if he was forecasting cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I'd like to see this CAA kick-in and actually get the DP dump. Still 43F DP at KBTV and the NAM MOS is bit dry busted so far. Also appears to be too dry at other locations comparing previous machine output to actual. I went back 3 cycles and noted a slight backing off on the scale of this brief cool-down. But, there are all kinds of topographical advantages some inland places have that can encourage decoupling and so forth, too. We'll see.The dew is down to 36F at my local ASOS/MVL, one county east of BTV.BTV has a 70F lake that's seven miles wide upwind of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropopause_Fold Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Dew here is still 62..Though we did have .12 in the downpour this morning lol...that's higher than any official reporting station in the state i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 MWN is 30 degrees with 30 knot NW winds..Drag would like that if he was forecasting cold But what if we were forecasting the mixing out of dew points in SNE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropopause_Fold Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Well does anyone live at those? yep. could be some people living in concourse A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 With the exception of a photograph showing a condensation funnel and waves kicked up how do they verify the touchdown for the stats? They see if the fish launched through the air are in a circular pattern when they fall on land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 We warned about this and some folks dismissed it as meh and NBD..WOW Ryan Hanrahan @ryanhanrahan3m Looks like a surge of warmer and more humid air middle of next week. 90 not out of the question. pic.twitter.com/5UcIT54dOX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian5671 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 lol...that's higher than any official reporting station in the state i think. dropped fast here, DP down to 59. Temp holding steady, maybe it rises once the clouds go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian5671 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 We warned about this and some folks dismissed it as meh and NBD..WOW Ryan Hanrahan @ryanhanrahan3m Looks like a surge of warmer and more humid air middle of next week. 90 not out of the question. pic.twitter.com/5UcIT54dOX TORCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 With the exception of a photograph showing a condensation funnel and waves kicked up how do they verify the touchdown for the stats? That's pretty much it. It has to be observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 A waterspout is a tornado..It's just over water..how many times have we seen videos of spouts moving onshore and then termed a TOR? Well yes and no. They can form in different manners that drastically affect their strength. A supercell traveling over water can drop a waterspout by name, but it is very much tornadic in nature. Think RI in 2008, or the multi-vortex over LI Sound. In other instances, including this example, local wind effects can lead to enhanced horizontal vorticity which can be tilted into the vertical as rapid cumulus growth occurs overhead. This is why you see so many waterspouts in Hawai'i or the Florida Keys. The air mass in place Sunday was primed for this, and reviewing the radar data there is no coherent velocity pattern to suggest rotation in the convection aloft. So I'm led to believe that this was a vorticity stretching example, and not supercellular in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Well yes and no. They can form in different manners that drastically affect their strength. A supercell traveling over water can drop a waterspout by name, but it is very much tornadic in nature. Think RI in 2008, or the multi-vortex over LI Sound. In other instances, including this example, local wind effects can lead to enhanced horizontal vorticity which can be tilted into the vertical as rapid cumulus growth occurs overhead. This is why you see so many waterspouts in Hawai'i or the Florida Keys. The air mass in place Sunday was primed for this, and reviewing the radar data there is no coherent velocity pattern to suggest rotation in the convection aloft. So I'm led to believe that this was a vorticity stretching example, and not supercellular in nature. I remember seeing a youtube of one in Myrtle BEach a year or 2 ago. It moved onshore and tore up some beachfront property. There was another one in Long Island too i believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I remember seeing a youtube of one in Myrtle BEach a year or 2 ago. It moved onshore and tore up some beachfront property. There was another one in Long Island too i believe Waterspouts can certainly do damage, but the process in which they form is very different and there is sort of an upper bound to the wind speeds that can result in one versus the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Well yes and no. They can form in different manners that drastically affect their strength. A supercell traveling over water can drop a waterspout by name, but it is very much tornadic in nature. Think RI in 2008, or the multi-vortex over LI Sound. In other instances, including this example, local wind effects can lead to enhanced horizontal vorticity which can be tilted into the vertical as rapid cumulus growth occurs overhead. This is why you see so many waterspouts in Hawai'i or the Florida Keys. The air mass in place Sunday was primed for this, and reviewing the radar data there is no coherent velocity pattern to suggest rotation in the convection aloft. So I'm led to believe that this was a vorticity stretching example, and not supercellular in nature. How'd it look up there? I don't even remember what the setup was like that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Yeah we thought so too, especially when we forecast for two of the five biggest lakes in New England. But I get it, I mean if it isn't considered a marine zone, it's a land zone. And if something touches down there it's a tornado for all intents and purposes. Unfortunately there are different processes at play sometimes, where the radar is completely useless for spotting these signatures. So what happens when a water spout from the ocean moves over land, then back over a bay, then back over land - haha j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 The dew is down to 36F at my local ASOS/MVL, one county east of BTV. BTV has a 70F lake that's seven miles wide upwind of it. For NW New England this is an easy call. I'm speaking to the frost advisory and Specials for the Rt 2 corridor down here. I have no doubt that we start advecting drier air here this afternoon, just curious how much that will be with still green foliage and recent soil moisture increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 So what happens when a water spout from the ocean moves over land, then back over a bay, then back over land - haha j/k We really test our coastal shapefiles in AWIPS. Have to make sure everyone is covered by a TOR or SMW...ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 We warned about this and some folks dismissed it as meh and NBD..WOW Ryan Hanrahan @ryanhanrahan3m Looks like a surge of warmer and more humid air middle of next week. 90 not out of the question. pic.twitter.com/5UcIT54dOX We were talking about the 11-15 day chief weenie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 How'd it look up there? I don't even remember what the setup was like that day. 75/72 at ORH at 22z. The radar showed the storm/shower pulsed up right as it moved over the reservoir too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Wind is picking up and temp dropping with stratocu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 75/72 at ORH at 22z. The radar showed the storm/shower pulsed up right as it moved over the reservoir too. You could reach up and touch the LCL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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