Facebook vs American Wx

[wdrag]

Good morning,

Quick questions?

Will AM WX BB still be viable as a method of communicating real time observed weather when NWS PHI soon goes to some sort of facebook page?

What method of communications will AM WX Posters prefer?

NWS intent is to serve... we need observed criteria wx...be it snowfall, tornadoes, wind related downed trees, unusual road flooding, any small stream flooding. I just am not sure what is going to be best down the road?

Comments welcome. Will try and check this in a few days, tuvm, Walt

[dryslotted]

Hey Walt,

I definitely think this is a viable place for all kinds of reporting, and has proven so in the past. NBC10 will often use obs posted in the Philly thread during significant events, and Glenn will even post in the thread requesting more granualr obs/data for a specific location. Also, I would direct you to menu in the top right hand side of the page. If you click the GO TO link, you'll see that the staff have setup a mechanism for reporting and displaying users snowfall obs.

Props to the Mt. Holly crew!

[wdrag]

RCD .. thanks for all... will await more comments... wd/phi

[BeauDodson]

Hey Walt,

I definitely think this is a viable place for all kinds of reporting, and has proven so in the past. NBC10 will often use obs posted in the Philly thread during significant events, and Glenn will even post in the thread requesting more granualr obs/data for a specific location. Also, I would direct you to menu in the top right hand side of the page. If you click the GO TO link, you'll see that the staff have setup a mechanism for reporting and displaying users snowfall obs.

Props to the Mt. Holly crew!

I can't imagine a better platform for reporting weather information (by both trained spotters, meteorologists, weather savvy individuals, and other weather enthusiasts than the American Wx forum.

You will get some response on Facebook - but quality control will be more difficult. Within this forum you have at least a better chance of reliable and accurate measurements. Sure you will always have a few questionable observations - but more often than not that won't be the case.

[Wow]

Our board software continues to move toward more integration of other social networks such as Facebook and Google+. Sharing information between us and them will continue to be a less cumbersome task.

(Notice the "share this topic" buttons at the bottom of each topic.)

[JoMo]

Agree with Beau. Quality control becomes an issue when dealing with large amounts of people on Facebook. A local broadcast met has 5,000 + 3,500 FB friends on 2 facebook accounts.

You will get reports, they may not be helpful at all, such as "It isn't storming in location x yet" when there are scattered t-storms.

You will get questions like "what time is it going to rain at location x?" hours before the rain develops and only scattered showers are expected.

People don't know their local geography, what cities and towns are around them, or which direction is which. This leads to confusion.

That doesn't mean it can't be helpful. I've seen people post pictures they've taken of interesting clouds or features or possible damage caused by storms that the NWS didn't know about. Someone posted a picture of damage and a possible funnel on the NWS Springfield Facebook page and they asked for a location so they could check it out and see if it was a possible tornado.

[Ian]

facebook is a very different market. of course the vast numbers can't be ignored there tho. not really "competition".

tho being able to ping 10-20k+ (or the 3% of them who are paying attention at the time) followers on questions like where the rain snow line is works wonders.

[usedtobe]

facebook is a very different market. of course the vast numbers can't be ignored there tho. not really "competition".

tho being able to ping 10-20k+ (or the 3% of them who are paying attention at the time) followers on questions like where the rain snow line is works wonders.

But some of us old guys aren't facebook type people.

[Srain]

But some of us old guys aren't facebook type people.

Nor do we want to be...

[Ian]

But some of us old guys aren't facebook type people.

Facebook offers very little meteorologically other than reports and photos. It's just an easy way to crowdsource. The plus is running a weather page on there is a sure fire way to get lots of people to give info. Yesterday it was pretty helpful being able to ask people what was happening in their backyard to track the rain/snow transition.

[Rainshadow]

But some of us old guys aren't facebook type people.

Yup, I don't have a personal account, but I am thinking of signing up with my space.

I have heard offices have had valued closer to real time information through facebook and also as already posted more real time info in evolving or changing scenarios.

[U_Thant]

I peruse them all for reports when on shift...boards such as this, Facebook, even Twitter.

[usedtobe]

Yup, I don't have a personal account, but I am thinking of signing up with my space.

I have heard offices have had valued closer to real time information through facebook and also as already posted more real time info in evolving or changing scenarios.

I may end up doing it too. My wife is against it as she thinks I spend too much time on snowstorms already.

[HurricaneJosh]

I find Facebook to be a rather clumsy medium for any kinds of wx discussion, including obs. I guess it's cool if you just want to type "3.2 inches of rain in Philly", but it's an awkward medium for anything beyond that-- any kind of detailed discussion. And then there's trying to find past content: Has anyone ever tried to find a Facebook thread from a year ago?

Facebook is like junk food-- the interaction feels good while you're having it, but there's no lasting value.

I'm not a Facebook hater. I'm a very active user, and I work in social-media-- I would say about a third to a half of my company's advertising campaigns harness Facebook-- so I get the relevance and importance of Facebook, because I really live and breathe it, personally and professionally. This having been said, I disagree with the idea that we should now conduct every single human or scientific interaction on that platform.

It is OK-- and actually desirable-- to have discussions and post obs outside of Facebook. We don't all need to live inside it 24/7.

[Amped]

I like the board better. It's a little more anounamous, my name and picture aren't on every post, even though people know it it, feels a little less personal.

[isohume]

We've had FB for a few months now at GSP. One of our tasks every shift is to check it and respond to any questions, etc. We rarely receive storm reports...esp ones we don't already know about and we spend most of our time answering questions. This has become more of a nuisance than anything else to the forecast staff. Some questions are good, but most are asking things like "When are we going to get 12" of snow?"...one guy even wanted us to email him radar snapshots. It (FB) is labled as "experimental" on our webpage and I doubt anyone at the office would be sad to see it go away. It hasn't added any value and FB seems to be fading out anyway.

[JoMo]

I like the board better. It's a little more anounamous, my name and picture aren't on every post, even though people know it it, feels a little less personal.

create a fake facebook account. I have one just to correct stupid people :-)

[Ian]

We've had FB for a few months now at GSP. One of our tasks every shift is to check it and respond to any questions, etc. We rarely receive storm reports...esp ones we don't already know about and we spend most of our time answering questions. This has become more of a nuisance than anything else to the forecast staff. Some questions are good, but most are asking things like "When are we going to get 12" of snow?"...one guy even wanted us to email him radar snapshots. It (FB) is labled as "experimental" on our webpage and I doubt anyone at the office would be sad to see it go away. It hasn't added any value and FB seems to be fading out anyway.

Most weather pages on FB are almost entirely self promotional tools. I could see how it might be annoying as a .gov. Still, there's little doubt that it has a fair amount of usefulness for data gathering. And as noted prior it can be used as a way to fine tune a forecast or get any changes out there quickly as most folks sit on FB all day.

Even tho your real name etc is attached if posting it's pretty impersonal I think. When someone or a weather team/office has tens of thousands of followers you're rarely going to carry on meaningful conversations with anyone about anything. Half of the people don't even read the comments anyway they just respond to the initial post.

Plus everyone is competing for views. Everything is WOW or OMG there. I have a fair amount of my weather likes blocked from my stream as they are annoying in real time. I'll just hit the pages themselves from time to time.

[isohume]

Most weather pages on FB are almost entirely self promotional tools. I could see how it might be annoying as a .gov. Still, there's little doubt that it has a fair amount of usefulness for data gathering. And as noted prior it can be used as a way to fine tune a forecast or get any changes out there quickly as most folks sit on FB all day.

Even tho your real name etc is attached if posting it's pretty impersonal I think. When someone or a weather team/office has tens of thousands of followers you're rarely going to carry on meaningful conversations with anyone about anything. Half of the people don't even read the comments anyway they just respond to the initial post.

Plus everyone is competing for views. Everything is WOW or OMG there. I have a fair amount of my weather likes blocked from my stream as they are annoying in real time. I'll just hit the pages themselves from time to time.

FB is not used as an extra metwatching tool since we generally only check if briefly once a shift. Also, like I said we rarely receive useful information...normally it's questions. However, it is another good way to get our products out since ours bots update the page as soon as we issue something new.

[Ian]

FB is not used as an extra metwatching tool since we generally only check if briefly once a shift. Also, like I said we rarely receive useful information...normally it's questions. However, it is a good way to get our products out since ours bots update the page as soon as we issue something new.

We use it that way on CWG. Since the ob network is kind of sparse it can be informative. I asked what was happening in people's towns and got 75 responses in 20 minutes. I'm generally a skeptic of it all but there are some things that work if you want to use them.

[Ian]

FB must know we're talking about it

6 User(s) are reading this topic

2 members, 3 guests, 1 anonymous users

1. Ian,
2. isohume*,
3. SBUWX23,
4. Facebook

[isohume]

We use it that way on CWG. Since the ob network is kind of sparse it can be informative. I asked what was happening in people's towns and got 75 responses in 20 minutes. I'm generally a skeptic of it all but there are some things that work if you want to use them.

Yeah I can see that. We just use the AWIPS mesonet for reliable obs in sparse areas during changing events. The better observers/equipment would be on the mesonet and weeding through FB obs would take too much time.

[wdrag]

Thank you for your responses to date!

Dont know where all these communication avenues are leading and which will be best. I see a need for AM WX type BB for the foreseeable, just for considerate discussion among mets,/interested wx folk on upcoming or past wx etc etc, as well as the observed wx of interest.

My primary purpose for monitoring FB, American WX is observed criteria wx which triggers some sort of product update or confirms expectations. One thing i hope happens in both forums... a town/county/elevation is assigned to every participant. Makes my life easier to figure detail locations of the many communities for which I am not innately familiar. Just that little standardization increases efficiency. For American WX, the pcpn type transitions and comments are very helpful, especially near the ASOS sites and in elevations.

Yesterday we received valuable contributions (not only from American Wx to get us going on the PNS's and knowing the ptype transitions).. but also in brief format, CoCoRAHS reports that automatically alert in NWS offices, Public reports, for which there is an opportunity to send information to us now; SKWARN observations in our email account, and NWSchat (media and emerg manager information), and trained spotter ph calls. Virtually all that data posted in PNS/LSR's. Plenty to monitor and at times, some of this data is lost (delayed) in the shuffle, due to necessary internal collaborations and product production.

Data: how best to acquire and assimilate for weather information services. FB is coming... how much it adds, we wont know for awhile, but your experiences help broaden the range of understanding.

Walt

[NJHurricane]

I will echo that I have found some aspects of it to be useful....pics of weather conditions are useful...with this past storm, I used FB to point friends and family with questions towards NWS advisories and the NWS Mt Holly page....(many had never visited it before) and enlisted some of them in letting me know of the rain/snow line and time of transition of precip types. I would hope though that Mt Holly would look to this forum as a more concentrated source of reliable weather obs. But using social media to make people aware of NWS mission and especially of warnings, yeah absolutely

[j24vt]

The Emergency Alert System needs to be extended to include the cell tower network and social media (Facebook/Twitter/etc.).

I suspect that the signal to noise ratio of trying to collect observations via social media would make it unworkable

[JamieOber]

Good morning,

Quick questions?

Will AM WX BB still be viable as a method of communicating real time observed weather when NWS PHI soon goes to some sort of facebook page?

What method of communications will AM WX Posters prefer?

NWS intent is to serve... we need observed criteria wx...be it snowfall, tornadoes, wind related downed trees, unusual road flooding, any small stream flooding. I just am not sure what is going to be best down the road?

Comments welcome. Will try and check this in a few days, tuvm, Walt

This is great you are doing this.

Our board software continues to move toward more integration of other social networks such as Facebook and Google+. Sharing information between us and them will continue to be a less cumbersome task.

(Notice the "share this topic" buttons at the bottom of each topic.)

That's fantastic. I like the idea of this.

I find Facebook to be a rather clumsy medium for any kinds of wx discussion, including obs. I guess it's cool if you just want to type "3.2 inches of rain in Philly", but it's an awkward medium for anything beyond that-- any kind of detailed discussion. And then there's trying to find past content: Has anyone ever tries to find a Facebook thread from a year ago?

Facebook is like junk food-- the interaction feels good while you're having it, but there's no lasting value.

I'm not a Facebook hater. I'm a very active user, and I work in social-media-- I would say about a third to a half of my company's advertising campaigns harness Facebook-- so I get the relevance and importance of Facebook, because I really live and breathe it, personally and professionally. This having been said, I disagree with the idea that we should now conduct every single human or scientific interaction on that platform.

It is OK-- and actually desirable-- to have discussions and post obs outside of Facebook. We don't all need to live inside it 24/7.

My thoughts on this exactly. I am more of a Twitter person.

Yup, I don't have a personal account, but I am thinking of signing up with my space.

I have heard offices have had valued closer to real time information through facebook and also as already posted more real time info in evolving or changing scenarios.

Thank you for your responses to date!

Dont know where all these communication avenues are leading and which will be best. I see a need for AM WX type BB for the foreseeable, just for considerate discussion among mets,/interested wx folk on upcoming or past wx etc etc, as well as the observed wx of interest.

My primary purpose for monitoring FB, American WX is observed criteria wx which triggers some sort of product update or confirms expectations. One thing i hope happens in both forums... a town/county/elevation is assigned to every participant. Makes my life easier to figure detail locations of the many communities for which I am not innately familiar. Just that little standardization increases efficiency. For American WX, the pcpn type transitions and comments are very helpful, especially near the ASOS sites and in elevations.

Yesterday we received valuable contributions (not only from American Wx to get us going on the PNS's and knowing the ptype transitions).. but also in brief format, CoCoRAHS reports that automatically alert in NWS offices, Public reports, for which there is an opportunity to send information to us now; SKWARN observations in our email account, and NWSchat (media and emerg manager information), and trained spotter ph calls. Virtually all that data posted in PNS/LSR's. Plenty to monitor and at times, some of this data is lost (delayed) in the shuffle, due to necessary internal collaborations and product production.

Data: how best to acquire and assimilate for weather information services. FB is coming... how much it adds, we wont know for awhile, but your experiences help broaden the range of understanding.

Walt

Tony and Walt,

I work in social media at Penn State, and I am happy you are incorporating social media. Along with FB, I would consider these:

Twitter: Twitter has proven time and again to a quite effective news reporting source, often scooping mainstream media. You can aggregate weather obs via hashtags - anything with a "#" in front of it. For example, if I lived in the Mt. Holly forecast area and you posted on the site to share obs via the hashtags #snowobs #mthollyNWS, you could do a search on those terms and see all the Tweets with those hashtags, as in "Snow, 1/4 mile vis at Doylestown, 5" on the ground really picked up last 15 minutes! #snowobs #mthollyNWS" There are other organizations trying this - see this link: http://scienceforcitizens.net/blog/tag/snow-measurements/

Flickr and Youtube: On the subject of scooping mainstream media, Flickr and Youtube will often have video and images - these would be more helpful however during severe events. Tornado images from Tuscaloosa and Joplin, for example, hit Youtube within minutes of the tornado's passing the individuals' house.

I do agree with you that with all these sources, there needs to be some kind of an aggregation. Twitter's hash tags are helpful with those.

Also, Walt, further down the pike is something you might want to consider is location aware technologies - learn more about them here: http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ELI7047.pdf

Note this and imagine applications for what you are thinking about (I know the following is about environment stuff but think of the applications for weather obs gathering - no need to figure out where the person is if the obs are automatically posted to a map via location aware apps):

"Technologists are also beginning to consider the possibilities for location-aware devices to inspire a new generation of “citizen environmentalists” who can use cell phones to report location-specific information about the environment around them. Like the rise of citizen journalism before it, citizen environmentalism relies on the unique contributions of informal data gatherers to help scientists paint a broad picture of environmental health and quality. In return, mobile phone users might be able to receive instant data about the air quality in their city or the weather forecast."

[JamieOber]

I will echo that I have found some aspects of it to be useful....pics of weather conditions are useful...with this past storm, I used FB to point friends and family with questions towards NWS advisories and the NWS Mt Holly page....(many had never visited it before) and enlisted some of them in letting me know of the rain/snow line and time of transition of precip types. I would hope though that Mt Holly would look to this forum as a more concentrated source of reliable weather obs. But using social media to make people aware of NWS mission and especially of warnings, yeah absolutely

Re: this idea, on Oct 2 I had no idea a record-early accumulating snow was happening 5 miles from me until I saw a friend from Philipsburg PA posted a snow pic.

[wdrag]

This is great you are doing this.

That's fantastic. I like the idea of this.

My thoughts on this exactly. I am more of a Twitter person.

Tony and Walt,

I work in social media at Penn State, and I am happy you are incorporating social media. Along with FB, I would consider these:

Twitter: Twitter has proven time and again to a quite effective news reporting source, often scooping mainstream media. You can aggregate weather obs via hashtags - anything with a "#" in front of it. For example, if I lived in the Mt. Holly forecast area and you posted on the site to share obs via the hashtags #snowobs #mthollyNWS, you could do a search on those terms and see all the Tweets with those hashtags, as in "Snow, 1/4 mile vis at Doylestown, 5" on the ground really picked up last 15 minutes! #snowobs #mthollyNWS" There are other organizations trying this - see this link: http://scienceforcit...w-measurements/

Flickr and Youtube: On the subject of scooping mainstream media, Flickr and Youtube will often have video and images - these would be more helpful however during severe events. Tornado images from Tuscaloosa and Joplin, for example, hit Youtube within minutes of the tornado's passing the individuals' house.

I do agree with you that with all these sources, there needs to be some kind of an aggregation. Twitter's hash tags are helpful with those.

Also, Walt, further down the pike is something you might want to consider is location aware technologies - learn more about them here: http://net.educause....pdf/ELI7047.pdf

Note this and imagine applications for what you are thinking about (I know the following is about environment stuff but think of the applications for weather obs gathering - no need to figure out where the person is if the obs are automatically posted to a map via location aware apps):

"Technologists are also beginning to consider the possibilities for location-aware devices to inspire a new generation of “citizen environmentalists” who can use cell phones to report location-specific information about the environment around them. Like the rise of citizen journalism before it, citizen environmentalism relies on the unique contributions of informal data gatherers to help scientists paint a broad picture of environmental health and quality. In return, mobile phone users might be able to receive instant data about the air quality in their city or the weather forecast."

VERY helpful links and entire discussion... thanks much... hope some folks in the know are reading to help in our development of improved timely information gathering for our NWS services! Much thanks, Walt

[uncle W]

Nor do we want to be...

echo...

[weatherwiz]

This is a great thread with excellent questions/points.

As someone who helps assist the skywarn team for BOX in looking for severe weather reports, rainfall/snowfall totals, measured wind gusts, damage, etc of all the sources I look to for information this board is where I obtain many of the reports I send in. I also look to facebook (although I seldom get anything from there and if I do it's hours after the event occurred), twitter, and police scanners. It's great when you come across a report, however, you need more than just the report, details become very important and often times, at least from my experience it's much more difficult to get the necessary details needed on the report when it comes from facebook or twitter b/c often times people will not respond right away or even at all. At least on the board here when someone posts a report but more details are needed 99% of the time I'm able to get a response. While this may not exactly go under the category of social media one of the best sources for information as well can come from Ham Radio Operators. BOX has one of, if not the best Ham Radio Operating teams and a majority of their reports are received via Ham Radio.

Anyways I think it's certainly a fantastic idea to begin including and combining as many social networks as possible as this will certainly increase the chances of gathering as many reports as possible. Sure it also increases the chances of getting fake reports or inaccurate reports but you hope this is as limited as possible. I would still believe and probably always will for any met looking for reports this is likely the best place to go and likely always will be.