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Tulip Trouncer Threat - End of March/ Early April


Baroclinic Zone

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Euro doesn't look warm at all thru day 10..and the weeklies are cold thru week 4. no spring this year

Weeklies have a terrible record. Per weeklies February would have rocked....not so. March would have rocked. Not so. D10 Euro has massive warmth covering most of USA by d10 and us shortly thereafter. Ensembles similar. This storm will break the pattern.

Despite all this cold wx, most stations are around normal for the month. Maybe they'll finish -1. Not enough to make March snowy typically and sure enough, it hasn't. Weeklies again have a not much better than chance record as does most guidance beyond d7.

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Weeklies have a terrible record. Per weeklies February would have rocked....not so. March would have rocked. Not so. D10 Euro has massive warmth covering most of USA by d10 and us shortly thereafter. Ensembles similar. This storm will break the pattern.

Despite all this cold wx, most stations are around normal for the month. Maybe they'll finish -1. Not enough to make March snowy typically and sure enough, it hasn't. Weeklies again have a not much better than chance record as does most guidance beyond d7.

Weeklies have actually been very good the entire winter including Feb and March. Ask Scooter. They had the first couple weeks of March with a positive NAO and above normal while the ensembles kept saying cold and snowy.

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Weeklies have actually been very good the entire winter including Feb and March. Ask Scooter. They had the first couple weeks of March with a positive NAO and above normal while the ensembles kept saying cold and snowy.

They were good with the blocking pattern, but from later Feb on..haven't been so hot. We'll see...I wouldn't say bone chilling cold, but they looked below normal.

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Wbz reported a run on structural support beams at home depot. Apparently people are rushing to protect their houses from the heavy snow.

Considering that around this time on the last storm the euro was showing some type of hit strange it's so flat. Back to too many cooks in the kitchen with all these short waves.

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Wbz reported a run on structural support beams at home depot. Apparently people are rushing to protect their houses from the heavy snow.

Considering that around this time on the last storm the euro was showing some type of hit strange it's so flat. Back to too many cooks in the kitchen with all these short waves.

The euro op has that problem....lots of s/w's. The ensembles still key in on that second low, but even the 06z GFS is doing it as well..it's got a 3rd low, as the second low gives us some precip. We definitely want a more consolidated s/w.

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I think some of the issue is there continues be low height anomalies modeled upstream into ND and all the way into the PAC NW of Canada. I think we'd rather have a stout ridge progressing gradually east as opposed to the anomalous ridging remaining so far west and south. This low height anomalies allow for subtle shortwaves to disturb the trough and not allow a single big storm to develop.

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I think some of the issue is there continues be low height anomalies modeled upstream into ND and all the way into the PAC NW of Canada. I think we'd rather have a stout ridge progressing gradually east as opposed to the anomalous ridging remaining so far west and south. This low height anomalies allow for subtle shortwaves to disturb the trough and not allow a single big storm to develop.

I'm sure we're going to see more waffling over the next two days. It's a complicated pattern that's going to be a pain to figure out.

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Wbz reported a run on structural support beams at home depot. Apparently people are rushing to protect their houses from the heavy snow.

Considering that around this time on the last storm the euro was showing some type of hit strange it's so flat. Back to too many cooks in the kitchen with all these short waves.

Merely to tie nooses. The later report also reported a run on ropes and chairs.

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Euro ensembles have lower resolution than the OP..but still quite good....something like 25-30 km horizontal. The Euro ensemble members actually have higher resolution than the OP GFS.

Thanks. Surprisingly easy question but tough to find the answer online.

With many potential s/w I think we will see the same contamination issues until 72-96

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Thanks. Surprisingly easy question but tough to find the answer online.

With many potential s/w I think we will see the same contamination issues until 72-96

I agree, And thats why i won't take interest until that time frame, There is to much wave interference right now and it will get sorted out over the next few days, This may come down to the last 24 hrs before it is sorted out with its complexity

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9” of snow for ORH seems hefty relative to the 06z synoptic look of that model. I hope we don’t get that – not that my druthers mean a hoot. No DG if that happens. A fresh 9” of compressible snow will be too much of a pain in the arse for me.

Anyway, NCEP didn’t say so during this morning’s Preliminary Discussion, but they did hit it hard yesterday that data sparseness in the N Pacific has been assisting the models toward throwing off varied solutions. Looking over things … that may still be the case until sometime tomorrow when dynamics start coming into the denser sounding grid out west.

The 18z run of the GFS, yesterday, was a juggernaut April event, whereas the 00z run unraveled – to some degree. 06z came back about half way. Meanwhile, the Euro, after 3 consecutive runs of epic proportion, now has puked out a run that shows a multiple low, sheared out suppression, and not much of any meaningful impact because of it (it should be noted that at D5.5 lead, this is still not quite into the ECMWF scary accurate wheelhouse ). The UKMET has shown 3 runs in a row, including the 00z run, a mega bomb. Last night’s run gave the best hope for snow zealots, showing – or suggesting rather – at least a start of heavy snow, then rain, ending as snow, as a 970-975mb hyper low moves bodily across the area. It brings about a -3 to -4SD closing 500mb center right over or just under our latitude, too!! Buuuuut, as NCEP noted yesterday, and I agree per my own experience, that model can get a tad excited at times, only to pull back toward something less dramatic in nearer terms – I’d like to see some of the other guidance show a clearer trend toward it before going that extreme.

So all told … we are pretty much nowhere closer deterministically per the last 12 hours of runs, except to say that from this Thursday through about next Monday or Tuesday, we are clearly in the least in a storm-probable pattern with unfortunately less certitude as to exactly what form, and when, that will arrive. Regarding that time range... there are hints, actually, hints only that there may yet be one last try later next week. Beyond that, the overnight teleconnectors are still hammering a converging signal toward warmth. It's not anywhere in the next 10 days so we are in wait ... But, the -1 to -1.5SD NAO by 12 days from becomes that much positive, and the PNA does the same in falling from postive into negative phase state. That combination of factors does not not not portent a colder than normal pattern for mid April, but rather a warm one. We probably won't see very shimmeringly obvious portrails of this in any deterministic guidance for the time being... But I do suspect that as we climb up the seasonal ladder into Spring and get past the first week of April (~ 10th), at some point around then there will probably be some kind of mass modality in the deterministic guidance to drub up an eastern ridge that is warmer than seasonal norms.

In the meantime, this is all kind of a miny winter refit - may as well enjoy the opportunity for monitoring.

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PRELIMINARY EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD
923 AM EDT MON MAR 28 2011

VALID 12Z FRI APR 01 2011 - 12Z MON APR 04 2011


PRELIMINARY UPDATE...

USED A COMBINATION OF THE 00Z/28 ECMWF AND ECENS MEAN TO UPDATE
THE PRELIMINARY FRONTS AND PRESSURES FOR DAYS 3 THROUGH 7.  THE
00Z/28 GEFS MEAN CLUSTERED WELL WITH THE ECENS MEAN...WITH THE
06Z/28 GFS OFTEN A GOOD FIT TO THE PATTERN WITH ITS SHORTWAVES. 
THE 00Z/28 ECMWF WAS IN BETTER HARMONY WITH THE MEANS
OVERALL...HOWEVER...THAN THE 06Z/28 GFS...SO WHEN THE ECMWF
SHORTWAVES FIT THE MEAN...INCORPORATED ITS MASS FIELDS INTO THE
MANUAL BLEND.  THE 00Z/28 ECMWF WAS A FAST OUTLIER WITH THE
SHORTWAVE STREAKING OFF THE ATLANTIC COAST EARLY IN THE
PERIOD...SO RELIED ON THE ECENS MEAN THEN.  THE DEEP CYCLONE THE
ECMWF DEPICTS OVER THE NORTHERN PLAINS LATE IN THE PERIOD MAY ALSO
NOT COME TOGETHER...BUT AT LEAST THE MEANS INDICATE A MAJOR
SYNOPTIC WAVE IN THAT LOCATION...SO GAVE THE DETERMINISTIC ECMWF
SOME CREDIT.  ALL IN ALL...THE PATTERN HAS A MORE WINTRY THAN
SUMMERY LOOK...PARTICULARLY EAST OF THE ROCKIES...WITH THE CHANCE
OF SEVERAL MORE FROZEN PRECIPITATION EVENTS AT RELATIVELY LOW
LATITUDES INTO THE FIRST DAYS OF APRIL.

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