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El Nino 2023-2024


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43 minutes ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

I see what you said. Its a deflection away from acknowledgment of the fact that the 2.0+ ONI crowd may be correct. Pointing out that there is not a "super" category is a strawman contention...its irrelevant. 

True, but it’s not gonna come to fruition 2.0. Close, but no cigar. I can see December maybe January coming in at 2. But not February. and as you know you need three months straight of 2.0 also, I admire your work to also and your outlook so far is been spot on. Keep up the great work.

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Boston, NYC, Philly, DC all are above freezing, late at night, with a rainstorm / above freezing snowstorm with the NAO and AO negative, arguably near record lows on their indices in nearly mid-January during an El Nino. I wonder when that will sink in to everyone. Most of you seem to be in the "denial" stage of grief still. 

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2 hours ago, raindancewx said:

Boston, NYC, Philly, DC all are above freezing, late at night, with a rainstorm / above freezing snowstorm with the NAO and AO negative, arguably near record lows on their indices in nearly mid-January during an El Nino. I wonder when that will sink in to everyone. Most of you seem to be in the "denial" stage of grief still. 

It sunk in last summer, since I have expected the first half of winter to suck since then. How is it odd for the first half of winter to suck in an el Nino?

Anyway, snowing nicely here just north of Boston.

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2 hours ago, thunderbolt said:

True, but it’s not gonna come to fruition 2.0. Close, but no cigar. I can see December maybe January coming in at 2. But not February. and as you know you need three months straight of 2.0 also, I admire your work to also and your outlook so far is been spot on. Keep up the great work.

Well, my call was for it to fall short, but it only needs to hang there through January to do it, not February. 

Thanks, man.

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2 hours ago, raindancewx said:

Boston, NYC, Philly, DC all are above freezing, late at night, with a rainstorm / above freezing snowstorm with the NAO and AO negative, arguably near record lows on their indices in nearly mid-January during an El Nino. I wonder when that will sink in to everyone. Most of you seem to be in the "denial" stage of grief still. 

I wouldn't call January 6th nearly mid-January. I don't live on the East coast either, but not sure what your vendetta is against them. 

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4 hours ago, raindancewx said:

Boston, NYC, Philly, DC all are above freezing, late at night, with a rainstorm / above freezing snowstorm with the NAO and AO negative, arguably near record lows on their indices in nearly mid-January during an El Nino. I wonder when that will sink in to everyone. Most of you seem to be in the "denial" stage of grief still. 

Just like you're in abject denial of climate change, eh Tacoman?

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14 hours ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

It sunk in last summer, since I have expected the first half of winter to suck since then. How is it odd for the first half of winter to suck in an el Nino?

Anyway, snowing nicely here just north of Boston.

The city itself has literally had 0.03" below freezing with those storm as snow. They'll still be 60-90% below average ytd.

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Meanwhile, IRI models suggest a neutral ENSO around the Equinox.  It'll be interesting to see if the Atlantic again has record and near record warmth.  The Nino style quick hitting rains every 3 or 4 days continues in Texas with cooler than normal but not cold temps.  The frequency is just enough to limit deep return of Gulf moisture, although tomorrow night into Tuesday morning, I-10 corridor from Baton Rouge to Panama City is in an enhanced risk with hatched tornadoes, where enough of a warm sector looks to come ashore.  That extends to ECUSA Tuesday.

 

 

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13 hours ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

Well, just got 6" of snow in 3 hours....the Raindance rule of winter being over for the east anytime a whale queefs in the Bering Sea strikes again.

I was just going to say, there was a nice area of a foot plus from NE PA across NW NJ and into the Hudson Valley and then interior SNE.  3-4 inches per hour for 2-3 hours too.

This is the kind of storm that portends well for late January through February for the coastal plain at the climo peak of snowfall season and a juiced up el nino STJ, Ray!

 

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2 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

I was just going to say, there was a nice area of a foot plus from NE PA across NW NJ and into the Hudson Valley and then interior SNE.  3-4 inches per hour for 2-3 hours too.

This is the kind of storm that portends well for late January through February for the coastal plain at the climo peak of snowfall season and a juiced up el nino STJ, Ray!

 

@raindancewxLikes to use local weather as confirmation of sensible analogs....well, look long and hard for a shit el Nino that buries interior SNE in early January...let me know when you find one. Looks a great deal like warmer versions 1966, 1987 and 2002 to me. Again, the warmth is not a surprise...no one expected a big cold/retention season with the strength of el Ninio/-PDO/ocean warmth combo.

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3 minutes ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

@raindancewxLikes to use local weather as confirmation of sensible analogs....well, look long and hard for a shit el Nino that buries interior SNE in early January...let me know when you find one. Looks a great deal like 1966, 1987 and 2002 to me.

He was clearly trolling. Don’t feed him

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5 minutes ago, brooklynwx99 said:

canonical EP Nino pattern for mid-January… right? RIGHT??

IMG_4143.thumb.png.6ca3372a8e5c9968c211a203d3d9c36e.pngIMG_4144.thumb.png.9b55de9996ec3d6c9b2568a2cc710823.png

I think this season is rather unique in the sense that it has some east-based characteristics, but for the wrong reason.....it's because the forcing is so far west that it triggers MC interludes, which are also warm in the east. That is different from years like 1998 and 1983...I think 2016, 2007 and 1995 are similar in that regard. If you run the temp composite and look at east coast snowfall, it comes out similar to east-based years because it sucks. But the difference this year from especially 1995 and 2007 is the blocking.

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13 minutes ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

@raindancewxLikes to use local weather as confirmation of sensible analogs....well, look long and hard for a shit el Nino that buries interior SNE in early January...let me know when you find one. Looks a great deal like warmer versions 1966, 1987 and 2002 to me. Again, the warmth is not a surprise...no one expected a big cold/retention season with the strength of el Ninio/-PDO/ocean warmth combo.

Yes but big cities remain mild and mostly snow free. Even Boston got skunked. 

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Just now, 40/70 Benchmark said:

Right...I said INTERIOR SNE....Boston didn't do great in January 1987 and 2003, either.

I just think that's what raindancewx was focusing on. 

Also there's no guarantee the Jan 15-22 period will produce, and if it doesn't, then it won't til February. 

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12 minutes ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

I think this season is rather unique in the sense that it has some east-based characteristics, but for the wrong reason.....it's because the forcing is so far west that it triggers MC interludes, which are also warm in the east. That is different from years like 1998 and 1983...I think 2016, 2007 and 1995 are similar in that regard. If you run the temp composite and look at east coast snowfall, it comes out similar to east-based years because it sucks. But the difference this year from especially 1995 and 2007 is the blocking.

I don't know.. east-based, west-based doesn't really account for the -PNA pattern we have seen so far. East-based most impacts the NPH (North Pacific High)
https://ibb.co/bR7r8Fv

and we haven't really seen any signs of that so far. I think even going into February, a +PNA would be more likely than a GOA low (-NPH pattern). It just hasn't really been building. 

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8 minutes ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

I think this season is rather unique in the sense that it has some east-based characteristics, but for the wrong reason.....it's because the forcing is so far west that it triggers MC interludes, which are also warm in the east. That is different from years like 1998 and 1983...I think 2016, 2007 and 1995 are similar in that regard. If you run the temp composite and look at east coast snowfall, it comes out similar to east-based years because it sucks. But the difference this year from especially 1995 and 2007 is the blocking.

yes, this is not the typical EP GoA blowtorch like those years had. this year will stray pretty far from those years on the mean

kPFS3Esg3t.png.eb821c6bc1a392a4c003a777dfaf3f7c.png

 

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12 minutes ago, Stormchaserchuck1 said:

I don't know.. east-based, west-based doesn't really account for the -PNA pattern we have seen so far. East-based most impacts the NPH (North Pacific High)
https://ibb.co/bR7r8Fv

and we haven't really seen any signs of that so far. I think even going into February, a +PNA would be more likely than a GOA low (-NPH pattern). It just hasn't really been building. 

Yes it does...forcing is so far west that its into the eastern portion of the MC, which favors -PNA in conjunction with the antecedent -PDO.

As forcing has remained anchored in the vicinity of region 4 on the western flank of El Niño, which  coincides approximately with MJO phase 7.
 
DEC%20FORCE%20MJO.png

 

This represented a large portion of the rationale for expecting a fairly mild first month of meteorological winter.
Note the resemblance between the composite for MJO phase 7 during an El Niño:
 
DEC%207.jpeg

 

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