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Baroclinic Zone
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6 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

I still wonder how WFH is going to effect cities. Interesting stuff.  Take 30% of commuters out of the equation would certainly change city planning 

I have friends who are involved in commercial real estate in Boston and San Francisco and they said it has been bad but not apocalyptic.

 

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56 minutes ago, weathafella said:

I don’t get why sleeping in a bit is a sign of a bad employee.   I worked at a location other than home for 50 years.   The biggest pain was getting less sleep than I should in order to get showered and dressed and travel to work so I could be there on time.   If a remote worker can do the same things and have better work life balance why is that bad?   If I were paying rent or buying office space I’d push remote work for those where it doesn’t make a difference.   There are some face to face times but the overall benefit for the company and employee is high.  
 

Since I retired, I’ve had a part time remote gig (1 day/week).    I realize that the work can get done and indeed I own the schedule more so everyone is happy.    In fact, if anything I’m giving them more than their $$ worth.    But admittedly I have the luxury of saying no at any time.

Big corps have programmed the American workforce to practically drop dead on the job or someone else will. It has trickled down to small bizz over the years. Work life balance barely existed pre covid and while it is changing, too many corps are slow to give up oversight. If an employee’s production dropped WFH is not because they are WFH, it’s because they weren’t productive in the first place but you can never quantify their office productivity if they look like they are working. There was a girl at my previous job who spent more than half her day away from her desk chatting but hey, she was in the office. Productive/honest/loyal employees will excel anywhere but if you give them more work life balance WFH and they will crush it. I find myself working more WFH actually. Kids pass out and I jump on for an hour. If I’m in the office I’m out at 430 to pick up the kids by 6. WFH, I’m on until about 515/530 because I don’t have the agonizing 1hr drive home to get them. I’m less stressed, more motviated, and generally happier WFH. All of our friends say the same. Companies are foolish if they aren’t adapting, the best talent will go elsewhere. 

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32 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

It was one of your posts that alleviated any concerns I had. I do listen to scientists on the front lines.

That was some of it for me too. It will be 2 weeks from my second Moderna shot on Friday. No immediate side effects, no tail or horn growth and I haven’t caught COVID either. It’s been a win-win so far.  I will say I’m probably closer to your lifestyle though Ginx. I usually don’t do big crowds in confined spaces. Occasional hockey or baseball games and once or twice a year if we travel for vacation. Most of my stuff is outside, golf and snowmobiling are pretty much cut out for staying away from crowds, with caveats about social situations that surround those activities. 

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8 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

I still wonder how WFH is going to effect cities. Interesting stuff.  Take 30% of commuters out of the equation would certainly change city planning 

Yeah that’s the biggest thing I hear from friends who live near Boston and are now WFH is the amount of time they realized they got back in their lives without having to commute.  One friend lives north shore and works south shore, usually an hour commute each way.  He loves getting two hours back in his day to do things with his two toddlers.

That would be very hard to give up if you realize what life is like without that rat race commute and getting 2 hours a day back.

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18 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

I have friends who are involved in commercial real estate in Boston and San Francisco and they said it has been bad but not apocalyptic.

 

Lots of people still want the vibe of living in a city.  Once the initial shock of the pandemic had receded living there continued to look attractive for some. 

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11 minutes ago, NorEastermass128 said:

My 24 year old brother just quit a good paying white collar job that he got out of school because of the WFH regime. Quit and is landscaping for now. 

I feel like I have a foot in two different generational mindsets. On one hand, I'm old school in the sense that I love work. I like being challenged, I like fighting to be the best at my craft, and I like being part of a team that's serious and purpose driven. Sitting idle is hard for me. I can't imagine stopping work to do something like retire early. On the other hand, I'm definitely of the mindset that environment and flexibility matter. The goal is to find fulfillment and happiness at the end of the day. Very millennial lol.  

Having done 100% WFH twice now in my career, I like being in the office more. There's just a lot of value to the daily formal and informal interactions and ease of person to person communication in my space. Ideally, things would be a hybrid for me with WFH but what's most critical to me is the flexibility to take accrued leave or go virtual whenever I need. That's been critical to my ability to pursue storm chasing and other passions, and will be helpful when I start a family. That said, you gotta be able to flip the switch back and forth to be a reliable team member. Not everyone can do that. 

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2 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Any new science related to singing and Covid?  We have a teenage daughter who is a theater/performance arts bug. This has been really rough on her 

Yeah, I feel bad for anybody who is a performer.  Restaurants  and breweries etc. around here, that are having live music again, are definitely letting performers get away with singing a few songs in their sets.  Silly rule anyway.
 

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7 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah that’s the biggest thing I hear from friends who live near Boston and are now WFH is the amount of time they realized they got back in their lives without having to commute.  One friend lives north shore and works south shore, usually an hour commute each way.  He loves getting two hours back in his day to do things with his two toddlers.

That would be very hard to give up if you realize what life is like without that rat race commute and getting 2 hours a day back.

2hrs/day for me and 3hrs for my wife. Between the two us we’ve gained 25hrs of ‘life’ every week. More family time and even more work. It’s definitely a game changer. 

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Just now, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

2hrs/day for me and 3hrs for my wife. Between the two us we’ve gained 25hrs of ‘life’ every week. More family time and even more work. It’s definitely a game changer. 

It’s also cutting down on the stress of commuting and the pollution that results from commuting.

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24 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Big corps have programmed the American workforce to practically drop dead on the job or someone else will. It has trickled down to small bizz over the years. Work life balance barely existed pre covid and while it is changing, too many corps are slow to give up oversight. If an employee’s production dropped WFH is not because they are WFH, it’s because they weren’t productive in the first place but you can never quantify their office productivity if they look like they are working. There was a girl at my previous job who spent more than half her day away from her desk chatting but hey, she was in the office. Productive/honest/loyal employees will excel anywhere but if you give them more work life balance WFH and they will crush it. I find myself working more WFH actually. Kids pass out and I jump on for an hour. If I’m in the office I’m out at 430 to pick up the kids by 6. WFH, I’m on until about 515/530 because I don’t have the agonizing 1hr drive home to get them. I’m less stressed, more motviated, and generally happier WFH. All of our friends say the same. Companies are foolish if they aren’t adapting, the best talent will go elsewhere. 

Sounds like what my brother-in-law talks about.  He leads a team for a Defense Contractor that develops tech for a certain US Air Force aircraft and he thinks his team works much harder at home than they do in the office.  They don't spend time socializing anymore, they work and he truly thinks his team has been more productive from home.  They've cut out all the BS meetings that used to take place in person and mostly do short zooms to align with each other.

He sort of gave me the same impression that you have... people in the office can fake it much easier than they can at home.  His staff seems happier too because they can transition quick from work to not working (as easily as walking out of whatever room they use to work in).

His one problem he said as a team leader is that being in a supervisory role or a boss, you do like to see your employees to know they are working.  It was a harder transition at first but once he saw the work that was happening, he was satisfied with it and thinks everyone works harder to prove that they aren't just jacking off all day at home. 

I do think most bosses do not like the idea of WFH because they relinquish some control over their employees.  They can't watch what's going on every minute of every day and that's hard for some of the more high-strung leaders who need that constant control over the workplace, micro-managers.  They struggle trusting their employees.

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I absolutely HATE working from home. Sure there are perks but it freaking blows. I first started working from home Wednesday, March 18, 2020. I found out I may had been exposed to someone with COVID so I immediately notified our HR and then went home thinking I would be working from home for two weeks. Well my job made plans to get as many people remote as possible. At first I loved it...I was working 6-3 and was waking up like 4:15 AM...that was brutal. I had zero energy after work to do anything and weekends I was dead. I got to sleep until 5:45...not to mention all the gas I was saving plus miles on the car. Well...two weeks turned into 4 months...after a couple months I just started to despise it. Finally sometime in July I had started doing one week in the office and one week at home (still currently on that schedule). Sometime in late fall I switched hours and do 8-5 instead of 6-3. 

But I don't get how people could want to just work from home forever...at least for me I think it lead to me slipping into depression. Waking up like 15-minutes before work, going from the bed to desk, taking a shower during lunch break, then after works shift ends...just pure boredom. Thankfully now the weather is nicer and things are opening but holy crap was winter depressing...plus my gf breaking up with me at the end of October. It was just work, then stare at my walls and I would just go to bed like 8 PM. 

It's nice to have the luxury of working from home when needed but to do it consistently...I want to rip my head off. I don't know how or why people would want that. 

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1 minute ago, PhineasC said:

Was there any old science on this?

Yep.  Infected people expelling lots of viruses no bueno.  There was an early (like March 2020) case in Seattle where a bunch of choir members all got the 'vid at a rehearsal.  A couple died.   This lead to research...

I will see if I can drag some up

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9 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

I do hope my staff meeting, etc can continue online... I hated gathering with everyone (70+) people and basically watching a Powerpoint or some such nonsense.  Talk about a lack of productivity.

Biggest. Waste. Of. Time. Ever

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3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Sounds like what my brother-in-law talks about.  He leads a team for a Defense Contractor that develops tech for a certain US Air Force aircraft and he thinks his team works much harder at home than they do in the office.  They don't spend time socializing anymore, they work and he truly thinks his team has been more productive from home.  They've cut out all the BS meetings that used to take place in person and mostly do short zooms to align with each other.

He sort of gave me the same impression that you have... people in the office can fake it much easier than they can at home.  His staff seems happier too because they can transition quick from work to not working (as easily as walking out of whatever room they use to work in).

His one problem he said as a team leader is that being in a supervisory role or a boss, you do like to see your employees to know they are working.  It was a harder transition at first but once he saw the work that was happening, he was satisfied with it and thinks everyone works harder to prove that they aren't just jacking off all day at home.  I do think most bosses do not like the idea of WFH because they relinquish some control over their employees.  They can't watch what's going on every minute of every day and that's hard for some leaders.

Exactly. And yes, we are a micro managed workforce. Great leaders don’t need to watch their teams though, They’re too busy working and leading (setting examples). Managers who’s main initiative is to oversee others is a wasted expense. My wife’s manager, for example, doesn’t actually work. She just head counts and delegates. $150k not that well spent. 

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Just now, weatherwiz said:

Waking up like 15-minutes before work, going from the bed to desk, taking a shower during lunch break, then after works shift ends...just pure boredom. Thankfully now the weather is nicer and things are opening but holy crap was winter depressing...plus my gf breaking up with me at the end of October. It was just work, then stare at my walls and I would just go to bed like 8 PM.

Why not wake up an hour before work then?  Get a shower, a nice breakfast, watch some SportsCenter.  Do your normal routine then transition into work.

But I get it, everyone is different.  Some just need the physical act of going to work to feel productive, even if you are doing the same tasks in a different building.

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5 minutes ago, weatherwiz said:

I absolutely HATE working from home. Sure there are perks but it freaking blows. I first started working from home Wednesday, March 18, 2020. I found out I may had been exposed to someone with COVID so I immediately notified our HR and then went home thinking I would be working from home for two weeks. Well my job made plans to get as many people remote as possible. At first I loved it...I was working 6-3 and was waking up like 4:15 AM...that was brutal. I had zero energy after work to do anything and weekends I was dead. I got to sleep until 5:45...not to mention all the gas I was saving plus miles on the car. Well...two weeks turned into 4 months...after a couple months I just started to despise it. Finally sometime in July I had started doing one week in the office and one week at home (still currently on that schedule). Sometime in late fall I switched hours and do 8-5 instead of 6-3. 

But I don't get how people could want to just work from home forever...at least for me I think it lead to me slipping into depression. Waking up like 15-minutes before work, going from the bed to desk, taking a shower during lunch break, then after works shift ends...just pure boredom. Thankfully now the weather is nicer and things are opening but holy crap was winter depressing...plus my gf breaking up with me at the end of October. It was just work, then stare at my walls and I would just go to bed like 8 PM. 

It's nice to have the luxury of working from home when needed but to do it consistently...I want to rip my head off. I don't know how or why people would want that. 

Have a family and we’ll revisit this post.

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