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Christmas Storm V


Cold Rain

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Yeah, its hard to tell how the models look for the eastern carolinas to the coast because when it looks bad for the western carolinas everyone freaks out.

I think with a less amplified solution there may be more in the way of p-type issues in eastern NC at the start.

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check out how strong the vortex is off New England. I'd be very happy with this setup if we didn't have an incoming northern stream. Just the upper low coming due east or east/southeast from this point on.

I know what you mean. Would you agree it is moving at a decent clip?

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I know what you mean. Would you agree it is moving at a decent clip?

yeah. It should be in northwest texas in 24 or less. After that I bet all models are having a hard time what to do with it. Something interesting can still happen, so its still definitely worth paying close attention to. I'd like to see it slower to give the northern stream a better chance, I'm afraid its going to outrun the first northern s/w.

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yeah. It should be in northwest texas in 24 or less. After that I bet all models are having a hard time what to do with it. Something interesting can still happen, so its still definitely worth paying close attention to. I'd like to see it slower to give the northern stream a better chance, I'm afraid its going to outrun the first northern s/w.

is there anything that you can see that would cause it to slow down, robert?

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yeah. It should be in northwest texas in 24 or less. After that I bet all models are having a hard time what to do with it. Something interesting can still happen, so its still definitely worth paying close attention to. I'd like to see it slower to give the northern stream a better chance, I'm afraid its going to outrun the first northern s/w.

It very well could. In my discussion posted earlier I was thinking the phase issues were due to an ULL in the northern stream that holds some of that energy back for too long. That was of course especially seen in the NAM. I am watching that aspect as well.

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Our shortwave is looking very healthy. It will be very interesting to watch what happens with this. I do notice that the sw is slightly north of where Euro had it placed. But im having a hard time believing that the northern stream shears apart our sw. I would not be surprised if a phase did happen. Let's see if the Euro gives us any hints.

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It's going to be really interesting watching the Euro crap all over itself in a few minutes.

So here's a question: at 18Z, things looked to be taking a turn for the better. Now the wheels have come off. Is it possible that the northern stream wave was in an area that still wasn't sampled well in today's 12Z runs?

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yeah. It should be in northwest texas in 24 or less. After that I bet all models are having a hard time what to do with it. Something interesting can still happen, so its still definitely worth paying close attention to. I'd like to see it slower to give the northern stream a better chance, I'm afraid its going to outrun the first northern s/w.

Since the models have been having a hard time with the stream interactions I know they may not be handling it well. After reading the HPC disco from this morning theres an interesting piece in there about the northern stream energy. Curious to know what your thoughts are on this clip from the HPC because it sounds to me like there could still be some real changes in the modeling for another run or 2.

ACROSS THE EAST...MODEL SPREAD HAS SLOWLY NARROWED CONCERNING THE

TRACK AND OTHER DETAILS CONCERNING A POTENTIAL WINTER STORM

AFFECTING THE EAST COAST DAYS 3-4. THE ECMWF HAS TRENDED FASTER

AND EASTWARD WITH THE TRACK OF THE LOW SUN-MON...WHILE THE GFS HAS

TRENDED FASTER AND WESTWARD...WITH THE 06Z GFS REPRESENTING A

CONSENSUS OF 00Z ECMWF/00Z GFS AND NEARLY OVERLAPS THE GLOBAL

ENSEMBLE MEANS. MEANWHILE...THE 00Z UKMET/CANADIAN ARE

SUFFICIENTLY FAR OUT TO SEA TO HAVE ONLY MINIMAL IMPACTS OVER

LAND. GIVEN THE MORE CONSISTENT TRENDS OF THE GFS/ECMWF MODEL

SUITES AND THAT THE SOLUTION ENVELOPE HAS NARROWED TO ROUGHLY

INCLUDE JUST THESE MODELS IF WE CONSIDER THEIR ENSEMBLE MEMBERS AS

WELL...THE UPDATED PRESSURES/FRONTS WILL LEAN HEAVILY TOWARD THE

06Z GFS. THIS PATH CLIPS EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA/VIRGINIA/NEW

JERSEY WITH ONLY A FEW INCHES OF SNOW AT MOST...BUT HITS COASTAL

NEW ENGLAND WITH BLIZZARD CONDITIONS SUNDAY NIGHT/MONDAY. GIVEN

THAT ONLY A SMALL SHIFT IN THE EXACT TRACK WILL HAVE PROFOUND

INFLUENCES ALONG THE EAST COAST...AND THAT PORTIONS OF THE

EVOLVING UPSTREAM CONDITIONS ARE ONLY NOW ENTERING THE MORE

DENSELY POPULATED OBSERVATIONAL NETWORK...WE WILL LIKELY SEE A

LARGE REDUCTION IN THE SOLUTION ENVELOPE WITHIN THE NEXT 1-2 MODEL

CYCLES...BEGINNING WITH THE 12Z CYCLE. UNTIL THEN...RECOMMEND

CONSIDERING A RANGE OF POSSIBILITIES THAT INCLUDES THE 00Z ECMWF

ON THE STRONG/WESTERN EDGES OF THE GUIDANCE...AND THE 00Z GFS ON

THE EASTERN EDGES OF THE GUIDANCE.

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Nice find. Goes with what NCW stated above also..

Since the models have been having a hard time with the stream interactions I know they may not be handling it well. After reading the HPC disco from this morning theres an interesting piece in there about the northern stream energy. Curious to know what your thoughts are on this clip from the HPC because it sounds to me like there could still be some real changes in the modeling for another run or 2.

ACROSS THE EAST...MODEL SPREAD HAS SLOWLY NARROWED CONCERNING THE

TRACK AND OTHER DETAILS CONCERNING A POTENTIAL WINTER STORM

AFFECTING THE EAST COAST DAYS 3-4. THE ECMWF HAS TRENDED FASTER

AND EASTWARD WITH THE TRACK OF THE LOW SUN-MON...WHILE THE GFS HAS

TRENDED FASTER AND WESTWARD...WITH THE 06Z GFS REPRESENTING A

CONSENSUS OF 00Z ECMWF/00Z GFS AND NEARLY OVERLAPS THE GLOBAL

ENSEMBLE MEANS. MEANWHILE...THE 00Z UKMET/CANADIAN ARE

SUFFICIENTLY FAR OUT TO SEA TO HAVE ONLY MINIMAL IMPACTS OVER

LAND. GIVEN THE MORE CONSISTENT TRENDS OF THE GFS/ECMWF MODEL

SUITES AND THAT THE SOLUTION ENVELOPE HAS NARROWED TO ROUGHLY

INCLUDE JUST THESE MODELS IF WE CONSIDER THEIR ENSEMBLE MEMBERS AS

WELL...THE UPDATED PRESSURES/FRONTS WILL LEAN HEAVILY TOWARD THE

06Z GFS. THIS PATH CLIPS EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA/VIRGINIA/NEW

JERSEY WITH ONLY A FEW INCHES OF SNOW AT MOST...BUT HITS COASTAL

NEW ENGLAND WITH BLIZZARD CONDITIONS SUNDAY NIGHT/MONDAY. GIVEN

THAT ONLY A SMALL SHIFT IN THE EXACT TRACK WILL HAVE PROFOUND

INFLUENCES ALONG THE EAST COAST...AND THAT PORTIONS OF THE

EVOLVING UPSTREAM CONDITIONS ARE ONLY NOW ENTERING THE MORE

DENSELY POPULATED OBSERVATIONAL NETWORK...WE WILL LIKELY SEE A

LARGE REDUCTION IN THE SOLUTION ENVELOPE WITHIN THE NEXT 1-2 MODEL

CYCLES...BEGINNING WITH THE 12Z CYCLE. UNTIL THEN...RECOMMEND

CONSIDERING A RANGE OF POSSIBILITIES THAT INCLUDES THE 00Z ECMWF

ON THE STRONG/WESTERN EDGES OF THE GUIDANCE...AND THE 00Z GFS ON

THE EASTERN EDGES OF THE GUIDANCE.

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The 0Z Ukie implies a rare coastal SE significant snow. I didn't see it mentioned.

Yes there are a quite a few members that reside on the SE/south coast, of NC/SC/GA....

I KNEW I shouldn't of went oystering yesterday afternoon, came back, after a few hours of rest, saw the cliff diving et al by everyone after those Model runs last night...

So yes, My 100 lb test/3 hook Lock-on went slack....

all 3 TV Met station ALL have differing forcast's for this event, rain/mix, nothing until the day after Christamas, and Snow starting late on Christmas day, even they are waffling..... though ALL are saying a high chance of snow of Sunday,almost 100%,,,, or the cold chasing the Precip...

Kilm AFD current as of 12:15PM today....

Short term /Friday through Saturday night/...

as of 3 am Thursday...high pressure and Delaware-amplifying upper pattern

in place on Friday. Flow remains northerly with weak warm advection not

starting until late Friday night. Limited air mass modification on

Friday...hindered by increasing high cloud later in the afternoon.

Highs on Friday will be very similar if not slightly cooler than Thursday

given temperatures starting out 5 to 10 degrees Friday morning.

Aforementioned high cloud continues to thicken up Friday night.

Increase in clouds and weak warm advection after midnight will hold

lows in the upper 20s to around 30.

Second half of the forecast continues to be problematic. Very little

agreement between the NAM/GFS/ECMWF/Canadian solutions...some of

which also lack run to run consistency. Have decided to lean in

favor of a NAM/European model (ecmwf) blend...which his close to but slightly faster

than yesterdays HPC solution. Additionally...a portion of the GFS

ensembles support a similar solution. As a side note...the 00z

operational GFS is one of the fastest solutions when compared to its

ensemble members and is being discounted at this time.

Feel fairly confident precipitation will not be an issue Christmas day and

that highs will range from close to 50 near to the coast to around

40 far inland. Combination of Arctic air mass and expected slow

evolution of storm system will probably delay the onset of precipitation

until Sat evening. Track/timing/strength of the system will

determine what happens and so far do not have a good handle on this.

Current forecast calls for rain changing to rain snow or all snow

Sat night. This is not much of a change from previous forecast.

Still way to early to start talking about potential snowfall

amounts...especially as this will be highly dependent on track. Lows

will be near to just below freezing Sat night.

Despite all the uncertainty there is some good news. The feature

that is ultimately responsible for developing the storm has moved

over the southwestern US and will be sampled by 12z radiosonde observations. By this

time tomorrow this should help provide a clearer picture as to what

impact the storm will have on the Carolinas.

&&

Long term /Sunday through Thursday/...

as of 3 am Thursday...beginning of the period will be dominated by

storm system affecting the southeastern US. Still a lot of

uncertainty with respect to the storm...but it seems likely that a

large portion of the area will see some snow as the low passes

offshore. Still unsure as to how much and exactly when...but these

are details that should become clearer within the next 24 hours.

Solution between the faster GFS and slower European model (ecmwf) is favored... with

low pressure deepening off the southeast coast at the start of the

period. Latest European model (ecmwf) is a little faster...especially from Sun night

on and only hints at some lingering flurries for Monday.

Current Obs........

43.9 °F Clear

Windchill:35 °F

Humidity:53%

Dew Point:28 °F

Wind:22.9 mph from the North

Wind Gust:26.7 mph

Pressure:30.09 in (Steady)

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is there anything that you can see that would cause it to slow down, robert?

once it gets into Texas it should start to feel the effects of the incoming northern stream. Right now we don't know how that interaction is going to be , since all the models handle it vastly differently. One of the biggest most likely options IMO, is that the incoming northern stream is going to shunt our upper low toward the southeast Coast of Texas , and then the northern stream is going to start "skimming off the top" of this upper low, meaning a little bit of moisture will get swept across the Southeast and Tenn. Valley, but leave the southern stream slowing down as it rolls across the gulf Coast. Meanwhile the next packet of energy in the northern stream is going to dig even further south and thats the piece that will end up catching the Gulf low (which by now may not be healthy looking) and thats the storm that could just clip Georgia and the eastern Carolinas. Its really a total guessing game now though since all models handle it so differently.

If we were to get really lucky like the euro was showing for so long, then that Texas low would hold very in tact, and get picked up by the northern stream as its in the Northeast gulf of Mexico, really start to bomb up the east coast. But right now, all models don't have enough consolidated northern stream energy, or have it far enough west, to do that.

That could still happen though. Can't be totally ruled out.

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once it gets into Texas it should start to feel the effects of the incoming northern stream. Right now we don't know how that interaction is going to be , since all the models handle it vastly differently. One of the biggest most likely options IMO, is that the incoming northern stream is going to shunt our upper low toward the southeast Coast of Texas , and then the northern stream is going to start "skimming off the top" of this upper low, meaning a little bit of moisture will get swept across the Southeast and Tenn. Valley, but leave the southern stream slowing down as it rolls across the gulf Coast. Meanwhile the next packet of energy in the northern stream is going to dig even further south and thats the piece that will end up catching the Gulf low (which by now may not be healthy looking) and thats the storm that could just clip Georgia and the eastern Carolinas. Its really a total guessing game now though since all models handle it so differently.

If we were to get really lucky like the euro was showing for so long, then that Texas low would hold very in tact, and get picked up by the northern stream as its in the Northeast gulf of Mexico, really start to bomb up the east coast. But right now, all models don't have enough consolidated northern stream energy, or have it far enough west, to do that.

That could still happen though. Can't be totally ruled out.

my understanding of this just rose exponentially! thanks for couching that i terms that allowed me the opportunity to get a 'visual" on that.

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Do the eastern carolinas get in on the action per the ukie?

I've quietly been watching all this from typically-snow-free Cape Fear and wondering...but I greatly suspect, even with a good track there won't be enough cold air to help us out.

Perhaps the southern coast sees a bit of wrap-around snow at the end...maybe even enough to cover the ground for a while before melting...but that's the most I expect.

Truth be told, I'd rather see you folks in the Piedmont enjoy a good snowstorm than have a dinky snow here.

Good luck to all of you.

:pimp:

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