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4 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

Baseball has plenty of players who are built like Bartolo Colon or David Wells or Prince Fielder, all of whom would have at least some risk of severe covid. I get your point, but baseball might be the wrong sport to choose if we want to talk about extremely healthy people in athlete level shape.

No question about that. There are plenty of baseball players that are not in great shape. But, I think the majority are in great shape and I heard that quite a few were refusing the vaccine. I know several in great shape players that are on the NY Mets (my team) that were saying that they might not get the vaccine, and obviously some followed through since the team didn't get to 85%. So I just decided to use that to make a point. I think when you're an athlete and in great shape, severe Covid risk is so low that not getting the vaccine isn't a big deal. But for people that are not in great shape, getting the vaccine is critical. I'm sure I would be desperate for the vaccine if I had any condition that put me at higher risk. But since I'm at extremely low risk and already had the virus, I have no fear of it at all and would rather rely on natural protection. Probably my biggest fear in life is having a reaction to a medication or anything unnatural that I put into my body. I can't even remember the last time I took any kind of medication, even something like tylenol or an antibiotic. I think it has been more than 10 years. So you can understand why I would be worried about a vaccine too. I'm a health nut that likes to rely on the natural protection of diet/exercise to stay healthy. So far that approach has worked well for me, so I don't want to make changes.

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7 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

I'm not afraid of contracting the disease because I already had it and it had almost no impact on me. All I had was a scratchy throat, a slight headache and a little congestion. So I'm not a dumbass ... I already know how my body reacted to the virus. Both my cardiologist and primary care doctor told me my chance of getting severely ill from Covid is almost zero because my heart/lungs and immune system are much stronger than average people. My resting heart rate is 36, which is very rare, and my cardiologist told me that my heart and lungs are stronger than most 18 year old athletes even though I'm in my 40s. Different runners have different fitness levels. Not all runners are extremely fit. Some have lower to moderate moderate fitness levels. Don't act as if you know what everyone's risk level is.

So yes, I am more worried about the vaccine than I am of Covid. And I'd rather die from being struck by lightning than a blood clot from a vaccine. When you take a vaccine you're doing something that's supposed to protect you, so imagine dying from it instead. To me that's the worst type of tragedy there is, except for being murdered. So I am not ok with even the tiniest chance of something happening from the vaccine. I do all this work (exercise) to keep myself in top shape, so I'd much rather rely on the natural protection. If I wasn't at extremely low Covid risk, I'm sure I would feel differently and get the vaccine. These vaccines are a great thing. I just think the very small percentage of people that are at super low Covid risk due to being athletes can not get the vaccine and it can be considered a reasonable decision. A lot of baseball teams right now are having a hard time getting to 85% vaccination which would take away restrictions. That's because there are plenty of athletes like me that don't want the vaccine. The decision should be respected.

Okay Captain America...

I don't want to read between the lines too hard, but I'm not sure how any of these people would be able to confirm that your immune system is so god-like unless you had specific tests done to show so. Having a strong cardiovascular system is great, but I'm really not sure how much it helps against Covid. 

I'm not acting like I know what everyone's risk level is, but I'd wager that few people are more fit than my friends and I with our sub 9:30 3200 times, and if they were very ill with the disease, then I think everyone else should be concerned too- or at least be willing to drop the whole linear healthy = less severe case argument. 

You're still wrong for worrying more about the vaccine than Covid, even if you are a superhuman because literally not a single person on Earth has died of the vaccine. If your heart is that superbly strong, then I highly doubt you have to worry about any kind of clotting. It's too early to tell, but I can guarantee you that all of these vaccine reaction cases have some sort of secondary factor in common that we don't know about yet (like pregnancy, mentioned above). 

I know I bake other people for trash talking scientists, but if your doctors actually told you that you don't need to worry about Covid because you're so healthy, verbatim, then they are morons. Being healthy helps, but it does not guarantee that you won't be severely ill. There were a lot of other factors involved with determining the severity of your case, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard. 

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Diet and exercise do very little against infectious diseases. Fine, I'll buy in that your immune system is excellent, and that's great! But even the best immune system in the world will get shat upon by a virus like Ebola or smallpox. The reason you've remained healthy for so long is because as a species, we've invented technology and practices that limit disease spread. 

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28 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

I'm not afraid of contracting the disease because I already had it and it had almost no impact on me. All I had was a scratchy throat, a slight headache and a little congestion. So I'm not a dumbass ... I already know how my body reacted to the virus. Both my cardiologist and primary care doctor told me my chance of getting severely ill from Covid is almost zero because my heart/lungs and immune system are much stronger than average people. My resting heart rate is 36, which is very rare, and my cardiologist told me that my heart and lungs are stronger than most 18 year old athletes even though I'm in my 40s. Different runners have different fitness levels. Not all runners are extremely fit. Some have lower to moderate moderate fitness levels. Don't act as if you know what everyone's risk level is.

So yes, I am more worried about the vaccine than I am of Covid. And I'd rather die from being struck by lightning than a blood clot from a vaccine. When you take a vaccine you're doing something that's supposed to protect you, so imagine dying from it instead. To me that's the worst type of tragedy there is, except for being murdered. So I am not ok with even the tiniest chance of something happening from the vaccine. I do all this work (exercise) to keep myself in top shape, so I'd much rather rely on the natural protection. If I wasn't at extremely low Covid risk, I'm sure I would feel differently and get the vaccine. These vaccines are a great thing. I just think the very small percentage of people that are at super low Covid risk due to being athletes can not get the vaccine and it can be considered a reasonable decision. A lot of baseball teams right now are having a hard time getting to 85% vaccination which would take away restrictions. That's because there are plenty of athletes like me that don't want the vaccine. The decision should be respected.

Would you not take Chemo or radiation if you got cancer with this type of reasoning? 

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10 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

Okay Captain America...

I don't want to read between the lines too hard, but I'm not sure how any of these people would be able to confirm that your immune system is so god-like unless you had specific tests done to show so. Having a strong cardiovascular system is great, but I'm really not sure how much it helps against Covid. 

I'm not acting like I know what everyone's risk level is, but I'd wager that few people are more fit than my friends and I with our sub 9:30 3200 times, and if they were very ill with the disease, then I think everyone else should be concerned too- or at least be willing to drop the whole linear healthy = less severe case argument. 

You're still wrong for worrying more about the vaccine than Covid, even if you are a superhuman because literally not a single person on Earth has died of the vaccine. If your heart is that superbly strong, then I highly doubt you have to worry about any kind of clotting. It's too early to tell, but I can guarantee you that all of these vaccine reaction cases have some sort of secondary factor in common that we don't know about yet (like pregnancy, mentioned above). 

I know I bake other people for trash talking scientists, but if your doctors actually told you that you don't need to worry about Covid because you're so healthy, verbatim, then they are morons. Being healthy helps, but it does not guarantee that you won't be severely ill. There were a lot of other factors involved with determining the severity of your case, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard. 

A strong cardiovascular system helps tremendously against Covid. Studies have shown that. Covid brings inflammation to the heart/arteries, so if they are very strong they are much more likely to be able to stand Covid. Any doctor will tell you that. And you can't say that no person has died from the vaccine. There have been people that have died from the blood clots. That's why the Britain health regulator has told people under 30 that they should get a different vaccine. People have died. And there have been many deaths after vaccines in this country. Someone posted the story of the 39 year old healthy Utah woman that got extremely sick right after the vaccine and died of liver failure. It's impossible to PROVE that the vaccine did it, as a medical examiner explained. But it's very possible that the vaccine caused it.  I'm sorry but I'm not ok with any vaccine death risk at all. I already had Covid and it had very little impact on me. I will keep doing what I'm doing to give myself natural protection.

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3 hours ago, Powerball said:

Posting a graph for others to interpret the data themselves is one thing.

Editorializing the numbers on a graph with conclusions not based on scientific evidence, such as...

"Once 60 - 70% of people are vaccinated, we'll reach herd immunity" 

or 

"80% of people are vaccinated." 

or 

"We'll be at herd immunty by the end of May."

...is misinformation, which is what several people were doing.

There's a difference. But nice try though. 

 

The graph shows a dashed line continuing to 80% in May. It's just a graphical form of what they posted. 

No one said 80% are vaccinated,  they projected current rates out in time just like the graph does. 

60-70% immunized may be a sufficient amount to achieve herd immunity, we don't know. They posted their opinions, why do you have to be thought police by calling it misinformation. 

You're  too much...

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2 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

Would you not take Chemo or radiation if you got cancer with this type of reasoning? 

I certainly would take something if I had to. But I'm hopeful that the natural protection of diet/exercise will keep me healthy for a long time.

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I can guarantee you that even the health foods you eat contain more "weird" things than the Covid vaccine. The vaccine is honestly an incredibly simple thing, and it is essentially impossible for it to kill you or harm you in any way.

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Just now, Malacka11 said:

I can guarantee you that even the health foods you eat contain more "weird" things than the Covid vaccine. The vaccine is honestly an incredibly simple thing, and it is essentially impossible for it to kill you or harm you in any way.

My coworker is a huge anti vaxxer and she went to Mcdonalds yesterday for lunch and smoked a cigarette as she was leaving. :lol:

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2 hours ago, OSUmetstud said:

I could understand the thinking, but it's still misguided at the reported level. The risk is far greater of severe effects/dying of covid in a younger individual than a blood clot from this vaccine. 

People will assume they can avoid covid or assume that even if they get unlucky and catch itthat they'll probably be fine. 

On the other hand they have to actively choose to get a vaccine that they've now heard May cause blood clots.

Even though the risk of blood clots appears to be extremely low,  I can easily see the thought process behind someone saying nope to choosing J&J or AstraZeneca because it is now a known risk that is within their control.  Catching covid and the risks of infection is a much more nebulous risk. 

Tough position for the FDA/CDC if they said nothing it seems like they may be hiding something, if they do what they've done, the media and everyone freaks out.

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1 minute ago, mattb65 said:

People will assume they can avoid covid or assume that even if they get unlucky and catch itthat they'll probably be fine. 

On the other hand they have to actively choose to get a vaccine that they've now heard May cause blood clots.

Even though the risk of blood clots appears to be extremely low,  I can easily see the thought process behind someone saying nope to choosing J&J or AstraZeneca because it is now a known risk that is within their control.  Catching covid and the risks of infection is a much more nebulous risk. 

Tough position for the FDA/CDC if they said nothing it seems like they may be hiding something, if they do what they've done, the media and everyone freaks out.

Yes. Im okay with the pause so they can better to analyze and quantify the risk. 

 

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13 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

My coworker is a huge anti vaxxer and she went to Mcdonalds yesterday for lunch and smoked a cigarette as she was leaving. :lol:

By a huge anti vaxxer, do you mean an anti vaxxer who is huge, or someone who is very anti vax? The former would make her very high risk.

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https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/13/researchers-search-for-answers-in-puzzle-of-blood-clots-and-covid-vaccines-and-see-some-clues/

Here is a really interesting article about what might be the cause of the clotting cases. As we collectively figured, it seems likely that all those people have some sort of very small immune condition that might allow the vaccines made from adenovirus (J&J, Aztra) to interact with PF4.

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20 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

I can guarantee you that even the health foods you eat contain more "weird" things than the Covid vaccine. The vaccine is honestly an incredibly simple thing, and it is essentially impossible for it to kill you or harm you in any way.

BTW you were asking about how much having a strong cardiovascular system can protect against Covid. A couple months ago I posted a study that looked at people that did treadmill stress tests and later tested positive for Covid. Each level of better fitness on the treadmill resulted in a lower hospitalization rate. Fitness level really matters when it comes to Covid risk. That's why of all the athletes in college and pro sports that have tested positive, it's incredibly rare that these athletes end up in the hospital.

Look. Other countries stopped the vaccine at times. The Britain health regulator has recommended people under 30 not take this type of vaccine, and now some US health officials are saying pause. This is not just me making stuff up. These are health experts. There is legitimate concern about this type of vaccine. Enough that healthy young people should consider the risk. The other type of vaccines seem much safer, thankfully. I've said enough on this subject. Everyone have a good day.

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1 minute ago, winterwx21 said:

BTW you were asking about how much having a strong cardiovascular system can protect against Covid. A couple months ago I posted a study that looked at people that did treadmill stress tests and later tested positive for Covid. Each level of better fitness on the treadmill resulted in a lower hospitalization rate. Fitness level really matters when it comes to Covid risk. That's why of all the athletes in college and pro sports that have tested positive, it's incredibly rare that these athletes end up in the hospital.

Look. Other countries stopped the vaccine at times. The Britain health minister has recommended people under 30 not take this type of vaccine, and now some US health officials are saying pause. This is not just me making stuff up. These are health experts. There is legitimate concern about this type of vaccine. Enough that healthy young people should consider the risk. The other type of vaccines seem much safer, thankfully. I've said enough on this subject. Everyone have a good day.

6 people so far out of six million have had this response. Six. One of them has died. All of the public officials who are halting vaccine rollout over this are stooges because there is literally no issue. What I don't understand about your logic, I really don't, is that you're saying you're fine with going on about with your life because what... Covid has a 99.7% survivability rate? Okay, well the J&J vaccine has a survivability rate that is far higher than even that, at 99.99998%. And that's just the J&J vaccine, others are even safer than that. 

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5 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

BTW you were asking about how much having a strong cardiovascular system can protect against Covid. A couple months ago I posted a study that looked at people that did treadmill stress tests and later tested positive for Covid. Each level of better fitness on the treadmill resulted in a lower hospitalization rate. Fitness level really matters when it comes to Covid risk. That's why of all the athletes in college and pro sports that have tested positive, it's incredibly rare that these athletes end up in the hospital.

Look. Other countries stopped the vaccine at times. The Britain health regulator has recommended people under 30 not take this type of vaccine, and now some US health officials are saying pause. This is not just me making stuff up. These are health experts. There is legitimate concern about this type of vaccine. Enough that healthy young people should consider the risk. The other type of vaccines seem much safer, thankfully. I've said enough on this subject. Everyone have a good day.

No one doubts that fitness and health are strongly associated with good covid outcomes. You just exaggerate the benefit to absurdity to the point where you actually believe vaccines are more dangerous than the virus. 

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38 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

Diet and exercise do very little against infectious diseases. Fine, I'll buy in that your immune system is excellent, and that's great! But even the best immune system in the world will get shat upon by a virus like Ebola or smallpox. The reason you've remained healthy for so long is because as a species, we've invented technology and practices that limit disease spread. 

Don't call other people dumbasses and then follow it up with something like this. 

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4 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Don't call other people dumbasses and then follow it up with something like this. 

It's true though. Infectious diseases literally evolve to infect you -to use your body as a host- and you think eating your veggies will stop a severe disease from rocking your world?

Look, my statement was a bit hyperbolized. Of course, being healthy is a must. Obviously, fat people will die at far greater rates from most diseases. But there comes a certain point on the healthiness scale, where no matter how much good food you eat, it won't help you any more. Your immune system is either impaired, or it isn't. And sure, exercise will lead to greater amounts of immune factors and all that, but all the same, it irks me when people say that eating right and being healthy will save you. It won't. 

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1 minute ago, dta1984 said:

Just noticed the top report in this database is a woman who was hospitalized 3 days after J&J and later died.  Not sure if this is linked to the vaccine or not, but close timing.  

https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

It is linked, she's the only person to have died from the vaccine (that I know of) It's in the article I listed above. 

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21 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

No one doubts that fitness and health are strongly associated with good covid outcomes. You just exaggerate the benefit to absurdity to the point where you actually believe vaccines are more dangerous than the virus. 

I never said vaccines are more dangerous than the virus. I realize the virus kills hundreds of thousands of people, and the vaccines are safe overall and save lots of lives. The vaccines are a great thing. So many people are at higher risk of dying from Covid. I've said over and over that the majority of people should take vaccines. I just think for the smaller percentage of people that are in great shape and are at low Covid risk, not wanting to take the vaccine can be considered a reasonable decision. There are people that are at such low Covid risk that it's not something worth worrying about. Just like when you go driving down the highway, there is a very tiny chance you'll die in an accident. But the chance is so low you don't worry about it. But there are lots of people that are at higher Covid risk and need to worry, so these vaccines are a great thing.

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22 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

It is linked, she's the only person to have died from the vaccine (that I know of) It's in the article I listed above. 

It's the same type of vaccine as the Astrezenaca vaccine, and quite a few people have died from blood clots from that vaccine. Again, the Britain's health regular says don't take the vaccine if you're under 30. You're saying he doesn't know what he's talking about? Again The J & J is the exact same type of vaccine, so there is the same concern. It's being stopped in this country right now because of health experts. I guess you think you know more than these health experts that are concerned about the vaccine.

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3 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

It's the same type of vaccine as the Astrezenaca vaccine, and quite a few people have died from blood clots from that vaccine. Again, the Britain's health regular says don't take the vaccine if you're under 30. You're saying he doesn't know what he's talking about? Again The J & J is the exact same type of vaccine, so there is the same concern. It's being stopped in this country right now because of health experts. I guess you think you know more than these health experts that are concerned about the vaccine.

“The same type” is relatively meaningless. A Boeing 737 MAX and an Airbus A321 are roughly “the same type” of airplane. But I do my research when I book flights and wouldn’t book a flight on one of those two.

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