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December Model Discussion


UlsterCountySnowZ

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1 minute ago, Paragon said:

Also, if memory serves aren't the very long duration storms closer to spring time?  Maybe NAO blocks are more common at that time?

I just remembered that March 1956 was another example of a very long duration storm (during a La Nina too.)

 

Cold be something to that theory. I would posit that as wavelengths begin to change seasonally closer to spring it would be easier to find at minimum a pseudo or transitory block more favorable to a slower system.

Wonder if Don has any insight on Nao periods later in winter versus longer duration systems.

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5 minutes ago, JetsPens87 said:

Cold be something to that theory. I would posit that as wavelengths begin to change seasonally closer to spring it would be easier to find at minimum a pseudo or transitory block more favorable to a slower system.

Wonder if Don has any insight on Nao periods later in winter versus longer duration systems.

Yes, thats right, shortening wavelengths give a different outcome than they would in, say, January.

Funny thing is before Jan 1996 you have to go really far back to get a HECS-type storm in January. (I'd consider 18+ to be HECS.)

Actually March hasn't seen one in a long time either.  March 1993 would have been easily, with a slightly further east track.

 

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5 minutes ago, JetsPens87 said:

Cold be something to that theory. I would posit that as wavelengths begin to change seasonally closer to spring it would be easier to find at minimum a pseudo or transitory block more favorable to a slower system.

Wonder if Don has any insight on Nao periods later in winter versus longer duration systems.

Late in the season, the PNA and then the AO grow less important when it comes to significant snowfalls in the area.

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19 minutes ago, Paragon said:

Yes, thats right, shortening wavelengths give a different outcome than they would in, say, January.

Funny thing is before Jan 1996 you have to go really far back to get a HECS-type storm in January. (I'd consider 18+ to be HECS.)

Actually March hasn't seen one in a long time either.  March 1993 would have been easily, with a slightly further east track.

 

Before 1996, you would have to go really far back to find a HECS type storm in any month in terms of snowfall accumulations in the megalopolis.

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00z Euro and 06z GFS could be onto something. Due to the proximity of the PV, I think the flow will remain too flat and confluence in the NE will win out (i.e.: near miss). 06z GFS was substantially weaker with the vort in the west. IMO, the only way we can win here is with a SWFE event. If we have to rely on a Miller A or hybrid ( i.e.: Euro) I think we'll have only a glancing blow and maybe an ACY special. 

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5 hours ago, Enigma said:

00z Euro and 06z GFS could be onto something. Due to the proximity of the PV, I think the flow will remain too flat and confluence in the NE will win out (i.e.: near miss). 06z GFS was substantially weaker with the vort in the west. IMO, the only way we can win here is with a SWFE event. If we have to rely on a Miller A or hybrid ( i.e.: Euro) I think we'll have only a glancing blow and maybe an ACY special. 

The storm signal is there right now. That’s all we need. Anyone playing model verbatim is going to get burned. Yesterday’s runs showing a HEC got the weenies excited and this mornings runs the warministas. Thruth usually lies between the two

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1 minute ago, bluewave said:

This is really close to being something big. Just need some help from the PNA and NAO to get the vort to dig enough. The NAO and PNA are right on the edge. Just not sure yet if our area jackpots or New England takes the prize. 

I’d be happy with a nice warning level event. With the amount of cold air around if we are fringed it would be a powder all snow event. My favorite kind. 

At this juncture using the seasonal trend I want to see a near miss. Anything tight and tucked is liable to come in too close to the coast. My worst fear is a March 17 repeat. That was a heart breaker on the island

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22 minutes ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

The storm signal is there right now. That’s all we need. Anyone playing model verbatim is going to get burned. Yesterday’s runs showing a HEC got the weenies excited and this mornings runs the warministas. Thruth usually lies between the two

Warministas. Love it.

Yes, there is a certain danger to model hugging, especially with this one. I was surprised (shouldn't have been) about the waffling this close to the event.

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2 minutes ago, Snow88 said:

A lot of vorts on the GFS

Models are going to have a tough time with this

It always seems like we go through this model mayhem before some of our biggest storms occur. At this range I am not really worried about what the GFS and even the Euro are currently showing. If this was 2-3 days from now then it might be time to start worrying a bit.

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1 hour ago, Rtd208 said:

It always seems like we go through this model mayhem before some of our biggest storms occur. At this range I am not really worried about what the GFS and even the Euro are currently showing. If this was 2-3 days from now then it might be time to start worrying a bit.

That the storm is still shown to varying degrees on the ensembles carries more weight at this time than the operational model solutions. The 12z GEFS mean is still fairly impressive.

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3 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

That the storm is still shown to varying degrees on the ensembles carries more weight at this time than the operational model solutions. The 12z GEFS mean is still fairly impressive.

H5 vort diving south a little later on GEFS but still produces a MECS. GFS missed the phase also. 

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2 hours ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

The storm signal is there right now. That’s all we need. Anyone playing model verbatim is going to get burned. Yesterday’s runs showing a HEC got the weenies excited and this mornings runs the warministas. Thruth usually lies between the two

The real problem lies with people who made plans in advance for that week.  The uncertainty is what messes plans made in advance.

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2 hours ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

The storm signal is there right now. That’s all we need. Anyone playing model verbatim is going to get burned. Yesterday’s runs showing a HEC got the weenies excited and this mornings runs the warministas. Thruth usually lies between the two

Actually using recent climatology the truth usually ends up being one or the other.  We very rarely get minimal warning level events anymore.  Either we see a 1-3" consolation prize or we see a 12"+ snow storm.  Our snowfall climatology has shown this to be the case since the 90s

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2 hours ago, bluewave said:

This is really close to being something big. Just need some help from the PNA and NAO to get the vort to dig enough. The NAO and PNA are right on the edge. Just not sure yet if our area jackpots or New England takes the prize. 

Problem is in recent years those who are not in the jackpot area get fringed, there is no in-between lol.  Remember Jan 2015 :P

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